Traditional Man Responds: Sex, Commitment & Dating Double Standards | Part 2

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So,

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It was a threesome.

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no Andrea I'll ask you, would you like your son given the preference to have a relationship with a woman who's had three partners or with a woman that's had seventy partners? women care about a man's future, but men care about a woman's past. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? One hundred percent.

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We'll leave it at that.

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Sure, no, and I to actually to better answer your question, I think it it goes from it woman to woman. So if this is where the sex question

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Okay, that's where it was.

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so I gave the example that if a woman were to tell me that she had a one night stand previously and I I do I mentioned well and obviously it's in a sarcastic manner, not that I would

pursue that relationship anyway. But I would tell her, well, now I expect sex on the first night. And it is it crude? Absolutely. Is it appropriate? Perhaps. But it's very direct. I think many men don't have the social leverage to be able to be direct and honest with women. And I think that's probably what happens with with most. Just especially beautiful women like yourselves. Why would I why would a man without options screw it up with

two ladies like you. I'm sure I'm sure you can tell

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the date, right? I said, you know she wasn't on the date, right? You're saying it here.

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No, well well I mean I can see you guys. You're good looking women. So

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It was a threesome.

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no.

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Well, there's a great flip, Andrew.

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Yeah.

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And what is what is meant by that is that why would a man provide all those all that time, energy and effort to court and receive what another man got for not putting in any any of those yeah any of those efforts. So I and I always say this, and it kinda goes back to like with the kid question. I put my with the kid question, I put myself as if my

a younger sister was dating a man. Would I like for him to ask about her children? Probably not. But I do understand that he would flirt and say, what about a low cut dress or whatever? and same same thing. I if I know Andrew you have a boy, so I always say put yourself in two boys. Put yourself in that in that

In that situation would you want your son dating a woman that had a one night son, but she required him to put put in more time, energy and effort than those other men?

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What is this comparison with the past? What if each person shows up as who they are?

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Love it. I love it.

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This perception of, you know, we are not monolithic creatures. Maybe we had a season of one night stands and intend to have another one, but right now that's not where we are. Assuming

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And the back of this.

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that assuming that, you know, it's like this universal debit card that gets put into the ATM machine and everybody gets the same currency back out.

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It's not.

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That's you know, that's one of the unfortunate realities of males and females. We are not judged by the same rule book. We have double standards. So of of a woman that sleeps with many men, what is she known as?

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What?

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Right. We're we all know.

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What is yes, and what is a man known as?

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A conqueror?

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Well yeah, and because it because it's it's much more difficult for a mat

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Those are also out becoming very antiquated perceptions, I think.

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Not at all. Well, okay. If if you were to tell well, Andre I'll ask you, would you like your son given the preference to have a relationship with a woman who's had three partners or with a woman that's had seventy partners?

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Well, I would probably say first of all that's invasive. I would not even know that information.

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Well, I mean for the sake of this conversation, th I mean your I think your ads are just told us.

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wanna know who is she today and what are you interested in about her.

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But let me let me ask you this. So this is this is where it's multidimensional, to to me's credit. It's it's definitely not the same. And I'll and I'll give you a better example. So if if Andrea were to were have told me, hey, I used to sleep with women when I was in college, that probably would not move my needle one way or another as far as my perception towards her. However

If I told her, hey, I used to have sex with men when I was in college, that would probably give her a little bit of doubt and perhaps not even approach the relationship. I'm not saying it would, but for in general for most women it would. And that's just because we're not again, we're not judged by the same rule book. If as far as as far as the past when it comes to promiscuity,

Yes, women are judged much more harshly, but when it comes to the future, men are. That's why we have that that saying women care about a man's future, but men care about a woman's past. Is it fair? No. Is it reality? One hundred percent.

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That's your

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lot of this is personal preference too, right? Like it's it's values alignment, it's personal preference. And it's also, I think, you know, we're an I traditional man, I'm not aware of your age bracket, but Andrea and I are both 50, 51. and, you know, there are histories and there are classes. Yeah. So I think, you know, it's it's looking at if if if that's not what you want, that's a personal preference. Great. Move on.

But to generalize and judge and place value on other humans because of those things, I think, is where it gets a little shady.

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Well, it is shady for sure, but and and I'm not saying it's fair, but it's reality. We j the the world operates on generalities. There's a reason why iPhones only have three colors because in general that's what people prefer. If we were to accommodate every single preference, then we'd have hundreds of them and Apple would never make a profit. So yes, we we should generalize and but after that

The burden the burden to get out of that generalization is not on it's not on Andrea for me to so okay, just so you just so you then give you a better example for generalization. Why wouldn't you let me pick you up from your place on the first date, Andrea?

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for safety reasons and I don't ever but

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Okay. Yeah. So why would I be generalized and put in the same group as other dangerous men? Don't you trust me?

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No, that's that's not a generalization.

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Well

it is one hundred percent. You're grouping me in with the same with every other man, as you should. I'm not generalizations aren't bad. We we make them every single day. So that it's not a bad thing. It's just so long as that's where our rationalization comes in. We first generalize, then consume whatever information that we have, and then we rationalize and make a decision.

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Totally disagree.

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No, you can disagree, but it's it's reality. I mean you can yeah, you're entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.

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So just to clarify. So just to clarify, if you were to go out with a woman and you find out that she has had multiple partners in her past, you have no interest of having a future with that woman.

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No, not at all. So that's not at all what I'm saying. I understand I'm not delusional. I I understand that especially at in my age bracket, they're going to have numerous partners. But it's if she wishes to divulge that, then it's probably gonna going to be off putting. So it's it's more to me, I I think I would approach it more like omission. So for instance, if you asked me, What did you do this morning? Well I would

probably leave out or omit certain things that I did part of my routine, especially after having a large steak dinner the night before, because they wouldn't be appropriate for me to share with you. Just like in in certain instances it perhaps is not appropriate to share some of those things with a partner. You can for sure, but don't be surprised if you are then judged on that.

Okay. And and again, look, I I'm not saying that this is the playbook. I'm just simply giving a little bit of insight from the male point of view. Unfortunately, I the reason there's a lot of resistance is because of this. Is as the saying goes, women fall in love with their ears, that's why men lie. Men fall in love with their eyes, that's why women wear makeup. So

Yes, perhaps most men have lied and said, yeah, I don't care how many partners you've had in the past, X, Y, and Z. Not true at all. They they may tell you that initially, however, in their their internal dialogue is making judgments.

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Your playbook is exhausting to me, traditional man. I love that you have it and we all need a playbook of sorts. Thankfully, there are not three colors to choose from on this planet, but more than eight billion people with which we get to choose to find alignment and value both values and even just, you know, everyday fun alignment. you'll find your person if that is what you want. you have a very specific playbook and so your avatar is clear.

And as long as your marketing messaging is great and you reel that that human in, I wish you so much success.

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One

more question I I actually one more question about a specific playbook. actually a a challenge. Now whose would be even more specific? Now with my height at five eleven, it is tall enough. Not necessarily tall, but tall enough, as was quoted in the podcast. So I would I would venture to say you prefer six feet and up. Great. Prefer. So what

How much more specific is that? How small of the population, or the male population is six feet and up relative to what my my standards are.

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Yeah, but I did not not go out with you because

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That's true, but but

Okay. Well okay, but but a five seven guy is probably not gonna qualify, right? Or a five.

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Sure. Yeah. Just like a, you know, six four woman is not going to qualify for many men.

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Okay, so and right. But and and I would I would you agree or disagree with this, that and I think I think it's evidenced here with this discussion that in general women's preferences are celebrated where men's are demonized. So I I'm not saying that that's how it should be, but that is the male preference.

Yet it's being shot down. I acknowledge that I have to be successful, that I have to be tall, I have to be in shape, have to be funny, have to be smart in order to attract beautiful men like yourselves. Yet if I give my preference, it is almost demonized.

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And

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said enough. I'm going to let you take anything into that. I have funny so you have nothing, but don't

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I'm not gonna touch that one in a moment. Because I have a better one, really. I have a better one. And then we're gonna wrap this up. I do need you to explain this one. Your statement was women control sex, men control commitment.

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Right.

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Go.

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Yeah. So I mean what what's your discount

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Women

control commitment too. Don't men also decide whether sex happens or not?

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Well, I mean, I think mex men in general have sex with who they can, but women have sex with who they want.

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And I do think this one came about from me saying about my friend that was forty something and dated her 29 years old. yeah. Is that where that one came from? Yes. And you said we talked about, I told you that she had dated a 29-year-old man, or we talked about it on an episode that you had listened to. And you brought that up to say had you known that information during the day, you would not have pursued any further with her, if I'm not mistaken. And you also said that that the issue here is that a woman in her forties

Going out with a man in her twenties is just looking for sex. Whereas a twenty year old man I stated is looking for money, probably. If he's going out with a forty year old woman, he's looking for a little bit more security from her in that sense. And I believe that's where you did come back and say the whole thing about, you know, women control sex and men control commitment. Is that correct?

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sure, but I I don't understand the what's what was the question to each each one of those

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Well, I guess I'm just wondering why that was even an issue to even think that because a woman is with a younger man that that implies anything really.

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Yes, understand.

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yourself and be even if it is just sex that she's wanting.

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Why is any of that a problem? Why do we all get to choose like I will never drive a blue car? Why is that a problem?

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Well, to to reiterate, none of these are problems. I'm simply giving the perspective from the or a a male's perspective. And it's more so yes, well in general. I mean even even a non-traditional guy, as you guys have well, if you ever read any evolutionary biologist book, there's a great quote by Dr. David Buss. Is

You can't ignore the whispers of ten thousand generations telling you what to choose. And it's true. Even I mean, you guys kind of reinforce that by wanting a tall, strong man, right? So you never said strong, but tall for sure. As you should. As you should. That's that's what you're

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hit on this in the recording of this this episode prior to you jumping in traditional man so that's a great segue. It'll it'll connect back

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No, yeah, perfect. And as it should. but but as far as if if a woman pursues a well not if if she has a relationship with a guy in her twenties and she's forty, most men and especially those that are very self aware may not take her seriously. They might entertain her for maybe a month or two, but eventually he will make a judgment. Just like you make a judgment initially, and it's that's

That's one advantage that we have as men is that the judgments that women make about us, we feel immediately. I'm never going to so for instance, as Andrea said, she could never picture me with her children and I received that feedback immediately by not getting a second date. However, if I wanted to just if I made judgments on Andrea and just wanted to keep her on for a good time, I could easily entertain her for four or five, six dates if she were

ality. And so so back to that: 2040

if any twenty year old can get into that. Now I mean it isn't that what gives things anything, whether it's a person or an object, value is its scarcity or difficulty to obtain.

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Sometimes I think also it comes back to preferences and appeal and you know, maybe there's six of you, but you actually have the funnier jokes. So

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Well, so I mean it we can always revert back to it it's it comes to preferences, but in general that's that's what usually gives things their value is its scarcity.

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Be super clear, especially for listeners too, like just in considering dating in general, remembering that preferences preferences, we never have to make one thing wrong for something else to be right. Right. So to have a preference does not require placing a judgment on something that's not the preference. I think that's a really key to build any relationship and to to find connection, you know, when you're out there in this vast world of apps and and speed dating and all the fun things.

Yeah, your preferences can be your preferences without judgments having to be placed on things outside of your preference.

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I love that. That two things can be true at the same time.

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Many things may coexist in this universe.

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One hundred percent. But and and you know what? And I and I'm glad you made that point. It does apply for sure on the female side. You can be you can be an unemployed female, but if you're halfway good looking, there's not going to be a shortage of suitors for you. But if you're a male and you're unemployed, even if you're the best looking man, you're gonna have difficulty attracting partners. So

What I'm saying is that it that does apply. Amy, to your point, it it does apply, but more so for females. If men had that train of thought, then I could say, well, you know what? I don't have to work as hard, or I don't have to be as disciplined with my nutrition, or I don't have to be that regimented in the gym because there's going to be a woman out there for me, perhaps, but it's going to I'm going to be casting a very small net rather than

casting it an industrial Japanese fishing net.

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Amy, anything to say to that or I'm gonna wind up.

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I'm I'm let's wind it to him. Thank you for all of your input. That was you you have very thoughtful input, traditional man, and appreciate that.

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Yeah.

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Do

without the man's planey next time. Sorry, I had to add that first.

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Without the bands plating.

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Yeah. Okay. So for part two you're gonna have to tell me what's mansplaining. I've heard that. so if we could do l man spin mansplaining and load bombing, which I've never understood. But yeah, that'd be a good

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Okay. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Well that's a lot of good things. And I was just gonna touch on the fact about the carnations. I do want to apologize for that because it was very generous and lovely for you to bring flowers, period. So that was that was insensitive of me to say that.

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No, I when when you said that yeah, when you said that all all the yeah, all the bouquets at Ralph's just went they wilted.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. They were playing it on the loudspeaker.

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They did. They did. my goodness. All right. So apparently we went on the same exact date and we walked away with completely different interpretations of what happened. Right. and so I guess I would just wind it down by saying, is there anything that you would have done differently there? Number one. And number two, if the opportunity had presented itself, were you interested in or would you have been interested in going out again, or did you already kind of decide that similar to maybe me?

part way through that that was this was not gonna happen.

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No, I was interested in another date up until the goodbye kiss just the goodbye kiss kinda told me, All right, she's not interested.

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But then it it was asked to let you know when I got home and to and I I do think I'm the one who actually said, I'll text you when I get home so you knew I'd be safe, which I did and I got zero

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No, I I I I verbally asked can you send me a text when you get home? Okay, I re I received a text, but that was obviously post cold kiss. So I thought, Well, I'm not going to be intrusive and continue texting or she's obviously not not into it.

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Okay. All right. Well, we're gonna wind it up there. Amy, anything else to add to that?

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I am proud of both of you for your honesty, for your self-awareness, for a difficult conversation. And it was actually a lot of fun. Well, a lot of I appreciate both of

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Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. so I appreciate that. I don't think the takeaway here is that one was right, one was right or one was right. Right. We're just two people who went on the same date and we had different experiences, expectations, and interpretations. So that is all good. So I just want to say thank you, traditional man, for joining. That was very brave of you and very sweet for you to come on. There's no ill intent here, I don't think, on either side. So

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Thanks for having me on. We gotta do it again.

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thank you so much. And to the listeners out there, Amy, please tell them where they can find you.

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Yes,

you can find me at Amy Watts on Facebook and at So She Did Life Coaching on Instagram. Send me a DM. Let's talk about all things dating and whatever else. Anything midlife, any reinvention. Let's do it.

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Let's do it. And I do want to hear from you guys because I already know you were going to have so many opinions and things to say on this one. what made you think differently today? Or who made you think differently today? Let's go with that one. And did hearing one side change how you felt about the original date, or did it change how you felt about anything that either of us said? So send me a DM on Instagram. I'm at from dot misses dot the number two dot Ms. And if you're watching on YouTube, which I hope you are, even though you're not gonna see his face.

you know, next time. Next time. Please go into the comments because I do want to hear both sides. All right. That is it for this week's episode of from Mrs. to Miss. We'll see you guys next week. Bye bye.