Emotionally Unavailable Men: Why His Words Don't Match His Actions

this goes to Dan Siegel's work. Our level of health is determined based off of our capacity to integrate an already lived life. And so that

Andrea Knoche (: 00:07

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 00:08

means dealing with our trauma. And if we don't,

Andrea Knoche (: 00:10

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 00:11

then we're actually just functioning from a childlike place. My job is to grow up in myself so that I can attune to where they're in some of my clients in a little child perspective and pattern.

And have enough

Andrea Knoche (: 00:22

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 00:22

ferocity and strength to call them out in that place because most high achieving men have never been called out in their childlike behavior because they have too much power and people are afraid. It's my job to say, hey, whoa, what's that? So let's slow down.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:35

Yeah. Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 00:37

And then I drop them into the vulnerability underneath the coping strategy that is making a mess and misattuning. And then I drop them into the the young part, and so the defenders can be let go.

And then we process the really vulnerable, terrifying feeling underneath. And then once that happens, then the pattern changes.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:59

it clears that block for them. And they're probably never really dealt

Mike Elliott (: 01:03

when I go to work with someone at the very first session, I say, Hey, I really hear what your intention is and I know what you want in your life. And I'm going to need to be given permission to interject any place I see the pattern playing out that's preventing you from being that man. Do I get consent?

Andrea Knoche (: 01:20

Mm.

Are they hesitant?

Mike Elliott (: 01:23

No, they all consent.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:25

They just do.

Mike Elliott (: 01:26

They consent because that deep down in their soul, they can feel that I am there in service to bringing them into more freedom. Every man from my belief is wants freedom on all levels. And so they can feel that's what I'm advocating for. And because they are being respected in being asked for consent, then they subscribe. And in my old work, before working with one of my mentors, Terry Real.

before learning that part, I wouldn't get the consent and then I couldn't make it through their pattern.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:59

Really?

Mike Elliott (: 01:59

But it's

like it's like a magic wand. If I get the consent at the very beginning, it doesn't matter if we're eight sessions in, they they sub the pattern submits. Cause they're an agency.

Andrea Knoche (: 02:09

Cool. That's

such a cool like discovery for you, I'm sure, to see them go from the beginning to the end where they end up. Right. I mean, do you have some that just kind of yeah? Yeah, I bet.

Mike Elliott (: 02:19

Brings me to tears every time. Cause I'm just sitting like

I I describe it as Shiva sitting front row, just watching God's work pour through me, watching someone from

Andrea Knoche (: 02:28

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 02:29

lifelong patterns melt and to drop into the vulnerability of their own heart and us meet there. Me get to

Andrea Knoche (: 02:35

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 02:36

be the one to meet them in the place where they aren't having

Andrea Knoche (: 02:38

No witness that.

Mike Elliott (: 02:40

to fight, defend. And it's such an honor. Like it just that's what my soul's here for. It just blows me into tears every time. Like, there you are.

Andrea Knoche (: 02:50

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 02:50

You don't have to do that anymore. You don't have to gaslight your partner. You don't have to fight defend because he's finally been met.

Andrea Knoche (: 02:59

And what a validation for you at the end of it to for you to be like, wow, I did that. Right. Like that's such an accomplishment, like for you. That's so super cool. Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 03:11

Totally. And it's interesting is yes, and it's it does hit that part of like, wow, I did that, but it's evolved to, my God, thank you for letting me be a part of that. Cause it's not me doing it. I'm just getting out of the way. I just I set the stage, I be the instrument.

Andrea Knoche (: 03:25

Mm. Yeah. Yeah. You're just helping bring it out.

Mike Elliott (: 03:31

And so now the new acknowledgement, every day I walk out of my office and I'm usually emotional every time I have client days, which are Thursdays and Fridays.

Andrea Knoche (: 03:40

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 03:40

And I'm just

like, wow, thank you. Thank

Andrea Knoche (: 03:43

Tough days.

Mike Elliott (: 03:44

you for doing that. Thank you for giving me that insight to say that thing at exactly the right time. I had no idea where that session was going. And it's just more of a thank you. And there's

Andrea Knoche (: 03:54

huh.

Mike Elliott (: 03:55

the ego part of, you know, best month ever. Whoa, I did that. And it's like I still feed that. And really

Andrea Knoche (: 04:01

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 04:01

the deeper bow of I have no idea how this is happening, other than like God's work. Like this is God's

Andrea Knoche (: 04:08

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 04:08

work.

Andrea Knoche (: 04:09

Do you have people that come that after the six months are they like, no, I need more? Or are they like, do you have people that come back and say, I I'm just feeling I needed more? Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 04:17

All of them, all

of them just keep going. Like I've had a few clients where they hit a place where my god, my entire life and paradigm has shifted that I need to integrate it because it's I love to just keep growing. That's my how I live. And they're like,

Andrea Knoche (: 04:32

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 04:32

my God, I just think I need to live this new reality for a bit. And usually they message me four to six months later and want to do another container. And then the and then

Andrea Knoche (: 04:40

They wanna do it again. 'Cause they love that

high too, right?

Mike Elliott (: 04:43

Well, their entire life is changing. And then they're

Andrea Knoche (: 04:45

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 04:45

being the other part of it is they're being emotionally met in ways that no one else is meeting them. So it's like, why

Andrea Knoche (: 04:50

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 04:50

would you replace that? Because that's what leads to them growing and evolving. But when

Andrea Knoche (: 04:55

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 04:55

they lose that connection, it's it's hard because now it's like, now I'm getting triggered again. And now I don't know how to move through this relationship with my wife. And I I am

She's pissing me off. And it's like, okay, let's work with what's getting triggered. Like if they don't have

Andrea Knoche (: 05:11

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 05:12

that support, it can be tricky. And the high achievers usually just keep working with me. Because they do want to keep growing. Like they just don't want it to stop. And they have the resources they can and the other people like, I gotta

Andrea Knoche (: 05:18

Mm. Yeah, and they can. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 05:26

go save up again.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:27

that's good stuff. That's really good stuff. I I guess while I'm recording I should go ahead and introduce you. Okay.

Mike Elliott (: 05:32

Yeah, let's do it.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:35

All right. For those of you that are tuning in and just heard a little bit of that, I am talking to Mike Elliott. He is a relationship coach, a relational leadership mentor and creator of the relational authority framework. So after going through his own divorce.

Rebuilding his life from rock bottom, Mike began helping men understand their attachment patterns, regulate their nervous systems, and to close that gap between who they claim to be and who they actually show up as in relationships. He is also the co-host of the Sacred We podcast, where he explores intimacy, conscious love, emotional healing, and partnership. Mike, welcome to from Mrs. to Ms. I'm happy you're here.

Mike Elliott (: 06:17

Yeah, Andrea so glad to be here. I've been enjoying our conversation already.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:19

Yeah. I know. I know.

I'm like, my God, hit record, Andrea, because the good stuff, there is a lot of gems right there in the beginning. And I hate when I do that. I need to just start recording right off the bat because that's getting the real stuff. Like you and I don't know each other, and we just kind of fell into this conversation, this routine, right? That made it super easy. And that's where I should be like, record, record.

Mike Elliott (: 06:47

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:48

Yes, yes.

Mike Elliott (: 06:48

Yeah. I highly encourage

that because I loved your invitation of of if this being more conversation than interview. And that's always my favorite. Because even

Andrea Knoche (: 06:55

Yeah, me too.

Mike Elliott (: 06:57

today, prime example, the amount of chills I've had and us getting to know each other just through

Andrea Knoche (: 07:02

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 07:03

just genuine inquiry and curiosity is just gold. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 07:06

Yeah, feels good. Feels good. All right.

Well, today we are getting a male perspective on something that so many women experience in dating, where the man who tells you who he is and that he's emotionally mature. That's the best one. He's emotionally mature, he's intentional, he's protective, and he's ready for a relationship. But his behavior tells a completely different story. Right. This happens.

all the time and and why we kind of connected in the first place because I just had this happen on one of my episodes of this last season and I had a guy who did exactly that sold me on his emotional availability, his protectiveness, his traditional values. And I took those as he's old fashioned. He he believes in security and protection and, you know, making sure that the woman is safe.

And none of those happened, by the way. So you know, and I and maybe I misunderstood what he was trying to portray, or was he just duping me? I don't know. Maybe. And we could dive into that a little bit. But before we wanna we do that, I wanna hear your story. you gave me a little tidbit of it before we started, but I want to talk about your journey. Cause you said that your divorce took you to rock bottom.

It forced you to rebuild your life. So what was the moment that you realized you could no longer blame the relationship or your former partner and you just had to look at yourself? Tell us what happened.

Mike Elliott (: 08:41

Well, it was the sobering moment when my wife decided to leave and I didn't expect it coming because now there was

the what I describe in my work as the real life rapport card of where I was actually at in the realm

Andrea Knoche (: 08:55

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 08:55

of presence. I couldn't run from it, couldn't hide from it. The woman that I was the

Andrea Knoche (: 09:00

It was in your face.

Mike Elliott (: 09:01

most afraid to lose just walked out the door and I had no idea. That was

Andrea Knoche (: 09:05

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 09:08

A moment where I got to know the depth of my reality and the journey that I've been on and the limitations of all the ways that I was functioning and learned how to function function.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:21

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 09:23

It just it was real. Everything got really real really quick because

Andrea Knoche (: 09:25

Real. Really quick.

Mike Elliott (: 09:27

yeah, it was I, you know, I was adopted twice in the first 14 months of my life. So my abandonment wounding is real. And

Andrea Knoche (: 09:36

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 09:37

That wounding created patterns and strategies to get people to like and love me. And my deepest fear was to have them never leave. So

Andrea Knoche (: 09:48

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 09:48

I was in a marriage that was very codependent, and I had no idea. I didn't even know what codependency

Andrea Knoche (: 09:52

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 09:53

was. I was just doing what most men do, striving for more status, more money, more success to overcompensate

Andrea Knoche (: 10:02

More more.

Mike Elliott (: 10:04

for the wound inside of me.

That didn't feel worthy or lovable to stay with. Even though

Andrea Knoche (: 10:10

Hm.

Mike Elliott (: 10:10

that's the evidence of what she was offering. And she loved me. She was there. She cared so much. But I was so numb. I didn't know this verbiage. I was numb

Andrea Knoche (: 10:18

You didn't know it.

Mike Elliott (: 10:19

in my nervous system and I couldn't even let her love in. And

Andrea Knoche (: 10:22

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 10:23

so here I was performing, pushing, grinding, living in my head. And I was hoping that maybe it would lead to her giving some ingredients to me that I could then feel.

But then that just deepened the codependency because she was giving it. I just wasn't feeling it. And

Andrea Knoche (: 10:42

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 10:43

that was my work. It was my wounding

Andrea Knoche (: 10:45

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 10:46

and I had no idea.

Andrea Knoche (: 10:48

And that's the mask so much for people out there. We try to mask everything with doing, we stay busy, we're searching for money, we're searching for success. We look at the things that we have, the tangible things, and that is feeding us, right? And it just covers up what we're really not dealing with. How long were you married when this before this happened? Seven years.

Mike Elliott (: 11:06

Seven years. Or together

for seven years, married for five.

Andrea Knoche (: 11:10

Could you say it was a seven year itch? Or yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 11:14

In hindsight, a hundred percent. Definitely like seven year initiation.

Are we gonna make it through? And we didn't make it through because

Andrea Knoche (: 11:22

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 11:23

it we didn't have support. That's

Andrea Knoche (: 11:25

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 11:26

you know, my that's my entire business is bringing support to people where they can't hold themselves. I think

Andrea Knoche (: 11:32

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 11:33

that's what keeps us interdependent. If you can't sort through the problem, the places of disconnection on our own, well, you do need help. Like that that's just

Andrea Knoche (: 11:39

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 11:42

The the humbling part of being a human being. That's why the coaching industry is the number one industry in the world. Well, AI is taking over, but all the coaches

Andrea Knoche (: 11:50

Yeah. Watch out.

Mike Elliott (: 11:54

using AI because coaching is still the number one industry in the world because we need help. And that's that's not

Andrea Knoche (: 11:59

Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 12:00

because we're weak. It's because we're human and we do need to experience the ingredient of what we're moving towards where

someone

Andrea Knoche (: 12:07

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 12:08

has actually already done it.

To move through the places where we don't know yet. And we didn't have that. So we broke down. And

Andrea Knoche (: 12:16

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 12:16

nothing bad or wrong with that, but what an ultimate lesson for me. Wow, whatever person I decide to spend the rest of my life with on round two, support's gonna be at the very ground zero level. And when I met Courtney, we both were on the same page of that. You know, she had two failed marriages.

And we started getting support at the very beginning to make sure we could get to know each other's patterns and be allies

Andrea Knoche (: 12:40

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 12:41

to rewrite them and grow up together.

Andrea Knoche (: 12:44

Wow. So did you when okay, so when your ex-wife came to you with this and said she's out, did you fight for it? Or was it kind of like, you know, I there's nothing I can do? Because you're not seeing really still at that probably at that very moment, you're not seeing the issue is you and that you haven't dealt with everything you need to. So is it kind of like her loss? Is that how you're feeling at that moment? Before it sets in?

Mike Elliott (: 13:14

Yeah, before it set in, honestly the first piece was

On a level I already knew something was wrong, but I didn't we didn't have conversations about what that was. I just felt

Andrea Knoche (: 13:28

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 13:29

her distant and I was confused and I beat myself up for it. And I would ask, Hey, is there something I can work on? Is there something I can't see? like let me know. And she would just tell me the same old no, you're perfect, you're amazing, don't change a thing. And I knew a hundred percent, hundred percent. I was beyond open.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:41

Mm. But would you have worked on that? Would you have worked on it if she said, okay, so you were open? Because a lot of times people say it, right?

Like, tell me what's wrong and tell me what I can do. But they really don't want to make those changes or make those efforts. They're just kind of giving a space for somebody to say, No, you're fine. Right. But you definitely wanted to. Okay. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 13:59

No, she knew. Yeah, I wanted to and

she knew that I would. She even said this to me at the end. I'm like, because I kept, you know, I was in heartbreak. I was devastated

Andrea Knoche (: 14:08

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 14:08

and I was bawling my eyes out. And I was like, why didn't you say anything? She's like, Because I know you, Mike, and I knew you'd make the changes, but then I'd have to feel all the things that I don't really want to have to

Andrea Knoche (: 14:20

She was already done.

Mike Elliott (: 14:21

feel from all the first few years of damage. And I get it.

Andrea Knoche (: 14:25

Wow,

it's too little too late at that point, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 14:27

Get it. Her heart, her heart broke, and we didn't have the tools. And so

that first piece for me was so sobering because it started to bring me into feeling. I wasn't, I wasn't crying,

Andrea Knoche (: 14:39

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 14:40

I wasn't feeling my feelings. I was using pornography to numb out. I was watching Netflix specials in my theater room in my basement every night. I was smoking

Andrea Knoche (: 14:48

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 14:49

pot. I was drinking. I was eating whatever I wanted to. And I was excessively working out, like hours

Andrea Knoche (: 14:55

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 14:55

each day.

Like just big, strong,

Andrea Knoche (: 14:56

Really?

Mike Elliott (: 14:57

and that's where I put all my energy. But I

Andrea Knoche (: 14:59

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 14:59

didn't understand those were all coping strategies to deal with the level of distress that I was numb to in my body. I didn't know. And all

Andrea Knoche (: 15:09

Mm. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 15:11

those coping strategies are very childlike behaviors and they aren't safe ingredients to be contributing to a relationship. A woman needs

Andrea Knoche (: 15:18

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 15:19

to feel revered, needs to feel respected and cared for and pursued and.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:21

Mm. Mm. It's special.

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 15:26

And

to to feel seen in the beauty that she has to bring. And I was so focused on just self-soothing that I

Andrea Knoche (: 15:33

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 15:33

couldn't meet her in a way that would create polarity, that would then initiate her desire to stay, even when things are hard. That part was on me. And I started

Andrea Knoche (: 15:39

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 15:42

to realize it when she left because I made a decision. I don't know if this is my soul, made this decision.

But something landed where I could finally see, even without books or information, that I was hiding with all of those coping strategies. And I made a vow to end it all. I sold my house. I got rid of all my theater equipment. I sold my TVs. I stopped, you know, smoking pot. I stopped drinking alcohol entirely. And, you know, I have maybe one or two drinks every six months now. Like I I cut

Andrea Knoche (: 16:14

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 16:15

all the things out that were.

Keeping me from actually taking responsibility for what I was feeling in my body. When I stopped all that, nightmares, terror, panics, I would fall on the floor and just convulse and cry and baw my eyes out because all

Andrea Knoche (: 16:32

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 16:32

of those things I was using were keeping me from feeling the overwhelming sensations of my already lived life. But

Andrea Knoche (: 16:39

Mm. And

do you just have to sit in that? Like when you're falling on the floor bawling, like most people would want to just run back to what they did. They're immediately wanting, I need a drink. I need to smoke something to get away from this. I need to watch some porn or whatever. But it sounds like you really like leaned into that and just yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 16:59

I leaned into it and it terrified

the shit out of me because there was places

Andrea Knoche (: 17:03

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 17:03

I actually didn't have the capacity to hold that amount of energy that was trying to process through my body, which is

Andrea Knoche (: 17:10

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 17:11

why the wisdom of all those co coping strategies were there. And so

Andrea Knoche (: 17:15

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 17:15

what I started to learn very quickly was within two weeks of my wife at the time leaving, I prayed.

Inspired by Oprah, I dropped down next to my bed on a night where I my mind was showing me in all the darkness of my trauma was showing me ways I should kill myself. It was dark and I was terrified. And I was convinced

Andrea Knoche (: 17:36

yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 17:39

of, my God, is this me? I'm a monster. And I was getting so lost in the shame that was trying to process through me. So I dropped down on my knees because Oprah shared that that's what she did in her dark night of the soul. I threw my hands up in the air. I said, God, help me.

I have no idea what I'm doing. Two weeks later, I got a message and my buddy said, Hey, I'm sending you a link to this guy. He's a soul coach. You need to work with him. The way you're doing it isn't working. And so I clicked on the link. I went on his website. I read it. I felt some something. There was a resonance. I felt excited. I booked myself on the call, and he was the first high-ticket coach I ever worked with.

And so I was excited. I was all in. I was a yeah, all yes. And then he sent me the price. And I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? This guy's

Andrea Knoche (: 18:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 18:29

stealing from people. And then I messaged my buddy about it and he called me out. He called me out in my childlike behavior. And he's like, Mike, how did you feel? I'm like, Well, it's an easy yes, but the money, it's insane. And he

Andrea Knoche (: 18:41

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 18:41

said, That's your shit, man. He's like, do it. And so I did it. And I did it again and again and again.

And I signed up for more containers because it completely changed my life. He this

Andrea Knoche (: 18:52

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 18:54

man gave me the felt sense and experience of being held in the places I couldn't hold myself. And I believe this is what we all need. I think this is why we're in such a hyper individualistic, hyper individualistic culture, is we are afraid to feel the vulnerability of our own human experience.

And

the places where we do actually need to be held. That's a scary place to be. Because what if we take that risk and they hurt us in the way that our body remembers somebody hurting us when we were vulnerable? That's trauma.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:25

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 19:25

That's the scariest place to be. But I kept taking that risk and I kept taking that risk. And every time this man would meet me in a way where I was starting to come more alive, I was starting to get more intuition. And so everything I was learning years before that started to become a reality of something is talking to me.

That is beyond what I can logically understand. I started

Andrea Knoche (: 19:46

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 19:46

to feel joyful. People started to come into my life and meet new relationships. And then the mirror life was giving me started to give me the evidence of what I was looking for, as I already am lovable. I just didn't know how to let myself be loved by somebody that actually has the

Capacity to love me because they've gone through their dark night and they've been held in all the places they couldn't hold themselves to be able

Andrea Knoche (: 20:14

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 20:14

to give that capacity to me so that I could grow up next to them. And once I started to pinpoint that theme, my entire life has been who's the person who can hold space for the vulnerability of me where I'm gonna freak out in this next area of my life where I want to grow.

Andrea Knoche (: 20:32

Mm. I could feel tears coming to from listening to that because I oof you you got me on that because I think so many people are in that space. I could speak for myself, right? Where you don't, I can't even look at you right now because you're gonna make me tear up. Because you don't

Mike Elliott (: 20:52

With you.

Andrea Knoche (: 20:52

even it's so hard to like really dive into yourself and be that vulnerable. And the money that

You said that is that block, right? How many times have I done that? I should do this. I know I need to do that, but I can't afford that. I'll find something cheaper. You know, I mean, like, how many times does that happen? And you just push through it. You just take whatever you have because what is your life worth? What is that change where you are now? Where's the value in that when you look back and think?

If I hadn't spent that money, where would I be today? If I'd stuck to my guns and I'm not giving you anything more than I have right now, where would you be today? You know, this just it's an incredible story, Mike. It's incredible. Thank you for sharing that with me. I mean, it's I see it in my own life, so I know, you know. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 21:44

And and thanks for letting me feel

you. It's the greatest gift, and this is it. Even

Andrea Knoche (: 21:49

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 21:50

now, as I'm sure you can feel, this is real human life.

Andrea Knoche (: 21:55

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 21:55

There are places it's scary to take the leap that doesn't logically make sense, or where there is a reality of I don't have it. I you know, I don't have enough to do that. And what a beautiful opportunity to ask God to show us the way to make it happen.

Andrea Knoche (: 22:13

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 22:13

In a way that is more accessible. Maybe, you know, I've had coaches I've wanted to work with that I'm not in a position to work with right now, but I don't stop feeding and tending and watering that seed of possibility. And I find who can help me with where I'm at. And I

Andrea Knoche (: 22:29

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 22:29

make that stretch and I make that leap because

Andrea Knoche (: 22:32

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 22:32

I've just seen the evidence again and again and again from that very first coach that brought me into a whole new paradigm. I found

Andrea Knoche (: 22:39

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 22:40

somebody who the reward.

And the value I got from that investment was 10x what I put in.

Andrea Knoche (: 22:47

Yes, yes.

Mike Elliott (: 22:48

And so once I started to see that, instead of my limited perspective of, my God, I'm going to invest 10 grand in this person. That's so much. And I only have four grand. Let me let's say. Yeah,

Andrea Knoche (: 23:02

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 23:03

but what if I start working with this person and three months down the road, I make 15 grand?

Because I'm in more possibility. I'm in being

Andrea Knoche (: 23:10

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 23:10

actually held in the part of me that's freaking out, that's been procrastinating for 13 years of launching the YouTube channel, of going on the podcast

Andrea Knoche (: 23:17

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 23:18

because I'm afraid of people what people are gonna say. What if I actually just get held in those young parts, grow those up? And then instead of waiting another three years, me trying to do it myself, what if I'm on the podcast talking about my story that inspires another person that can feel something that wants to then work with me? What if?

What I started to realize is being more me is the greatest asset that I can bring life. But it means I have to take the risk. And I'm not a religious guy, but it makes me think of that story in the Bible. If you truly, truly want to follow me, go sell everything that you have and follow me.

Can't remember where in the Bible that is. Somebody who I think it's walks up to Jesus and, like, you know, has all this success, has all this money, and then is inspired by this way of being. What would you have me do? I want to follow you. I want to learn. You want to learn?

Go sell everything and come follow me. And I've had

Andrea Knoche (: 24:12

Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Mike Elliott (: 24:16

that come up inside of me again and again and again. This

Andrea Knoche (: 24:19

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 24:20

happened to me last month. I hit this place of, we're here about to buy our dream home.

But I'm short this amount of money. Like, what am I going to do?

Andrea Knoche (: 24:28

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 24:29

And the answer was go sell everything and come follow me. And I was like, I can't touch my investments. I can't touch the. And then I

Andrea Knoche (: 24:35

Can't do that.

Mike Elliott (: 24:36

just like, okay, well, like if this is the direction, if it is the, if this is the guidance, is to buy this dream home, sold my investments and no, okay, there's some money, but we're still short. But I I took the thing I was great, gripping onto and I was afraid to lose. And I

Andrea Knoche (: 24:51

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 24:51

just took the risk.

And then I had the biggest month I've ever had in my career last month, which we talked about at the beginning

of this. And I logically

Andrea Knoche (: 24:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 24:59

couldn't see it coming, but I felt deep in my bones that God, life, higher self, whatever you want to call it, for those listening, gave me the message that you have to move through that edge of limited perspective and trust that I got you. That inspiration,

Andrea Knoche (: 25:17

Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 25:18

that guidance you have inside, if you don't step onto that bridge.

It won't appear. You have to trust me, which means you're gonna have to go through that limited perspective to be shown a new one. And again and again and again it happens.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:35

That's incredible. And what about what about like the naysayers, the ones that are like, and some that just are not really ready yet, right? So they, okay, so somebody's listening to this episode and they hear what you're saying and they're like, my God, I want that to be me. That's who I want to be. I want my life to be like that. And they're not financially in a place to do that, right? So now, but they're saying, but Mike told me, Mike told me to go sell everything I have to follow him. But

Internally, they are not maybe ready for this kind of transformation or to really give themselves to what you're about to give to them. So they go, they're selling everything they got, and they come to Mike and they're like, hey, here's everything I got, transform me. What do you say to that? Because what if six months goes by, and because they were not ready in the beginning, they're definitely not ready now quite in the end, but they've now spent everything and they're like, Mike, you told me. What do you do there?

What do you say?

Mike Elliott (: 26:35

Yeah.

First thing is I'm not telling anyone, anyone listening, I'm not telling

Andrea Knoche (: 26:39

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 26:39

you to go sell everything that you have and come follow me or or

Andrea Knoche (: 26:42

Clear that one up.

Mike Elliott (: 26:44

follow anyone else. What I'm inviting is if you have an inner whisper and guidance that I believe we all have, whether we're listening to it or not, if there's an inner whisper inside of you that is showing you

Andrea Knoche (: 26:55

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 26:56

the breadcrumbs of a decision that's super edgy and terrifying, but you're not taking it and you know you're not taking it, I'm inviting that.

So this isn't

I'm not the one to follow. I'm not the guru. But if there's

Andrea Knoche (: 27:07

Yeah. You know.

Mike Elliott (: 27:08

a hit and an inspiration of like, this is the message, this is the conversation I've been needing to have, then yeah, maybe it is me. You know, maybe there's that one person out there that it is. But I don't care about that. I care about per somebody following that own inner whisper and guidance because that is the ultimate safety. That is the ultimate relationship to build trust in, the

Andrea Knoche (: 27:31

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 27:31

one with your own heart. And this is.

Excuse me, is a place where the heart has been studied so deeply and it's been proven that it has its own infinite intelligence. Now, the issue we have is so much of our culture has been programmed to really prioritize logic and intellect. And what

Andrea Knoche (: 27:49

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 27:50

I found is, you know, I lived that place for 13 years and it destroyed my marriage, it destroyed my self-confidence. I just ruined my life living from logic because I was following everyone else's template.

Andrea Knoche (: 28:01

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 28:02

But where my life started to change is building a relationship with my own heart and being held in places I couldn't even face my own heart. I felt so much shame. I felt I was convinced I was a monster and all these things. I had to be in the presence of somebody who could love the energy, the experiences inside of me that I was convinced were unlovable. Once I was in

Andrea Knoche (: 28:26

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 28:27

proximity to that, well.

Now the patterns start to change. The beliefs are being challenged. And so to circle back to your piece in the beginning, my invitation is don't go out of just blind faith because of words that I'm saying. This can be misconstrued. And I want to highlight that. I'm not saying go sell all your things. I'm sharing my lived experience where that was the message I got in the whispers of my own heart.

Andrea Knoche (: 28:57

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 28:57

At a certain

part of my journey where my message and learning was go sell your things and follow me. And I did, and it worked out for me. That might not be your path, but I guarantee

Andrea Knoche (: 29:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 29:09

there is a path that's trying to be laid that's different and unique. And so the invitation is follow that and move towards somebody that is mirroring back to you your unrealized version of yourself.

Because if we put someone on a pedestal, it's just a mirror reflection of what hasn't been birthed inside that's wanting to. And so

Andrea Knoche (: 29:32

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 29:33

join their field of energy with something that's stretchy and edgy, but it's not going to wipe you out. We don't want you dysregulated, struggling, drowning. Don't go max out all your credit cards, please. But maybe sign up for.

Tony Robbins live event, if he's someone that inspires you. You know, I created an offer called The Initiated Man. It's only $97. And I even give the guarantee: if you don't get that value in the first month, I'll send it back to you.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:04

Hm.

Mike Elliott (: 30:04

Go find someone with offers that are at the lower entry level to start to

Andrea Knoche (: 30:09

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 30:10

give yourself permission of how does it feel being in this field of energy around these people that this person attracts?

Andrea Knoche (: 30:16

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 30:17

What is that like?

What version of myself do I get to know when I do that? And then if the whispers start to turn into go deeper, invest more,

Andrea Knoche (: 30:26

Build it. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 30:28

now you're gonna be able to trust yourself in that big leap because of you moving towards the thing that life is already showing you you need.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:36

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And and that was the direction I was hoping you were going gonna go in with that because, you know, we kind of talked about like how there's there's so much stuff out there, right? Like coaches, everybody's a coach, everybody knows what they're doing, they've done this and that, they're dealing with their experiences, right? And people out there say, follow me. Exactly what you know, go spend, go get rid of everything you have, sell it all, take your money and come follow me. And so I love that you said that. You're not out here saying,

Hey, you gotta just follow me and do that. Do what feels right to you, you know, do what you need to do. Start small and build from there. And so thank you for saying that. I wanted that point to come across to people that we can't just trust every single person that is out here speaking and and saying something because it's not always coming from a good place too, you know. And so yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 31:28

Thank you. Thank you,

Andrea, for tuning to that part. Because if we didn't talk about that, somebody could have got hurt with the pieces that I shared without that context. Because they're

Andrea Knoche (: 31:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 31:37

just to name it, I've experienced it. There are people that will convince you to stretch past your edge and they're not relationally attuning.

Andrea Knoche (: 31:43

Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 31:45

And I've been that person of, well, you said you want this, and they kind of there's a pressure sails into it and like use your credit card and then I do do it, and then I'm overwhelmed and I can't actually even take in their content because I'm completely dysregulated.

Andrea Knoche (: 31:56

Yeah.

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 31:58

So I'm

so glad you said it because if anyone is pressuring you into doing something, it's not it. That isn't

Andrea Knoche (: 32:04

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 32:05

kind. We have nervous systems that need to what you know, this is you know the golden rule that we teach about in our work, my partner and I, Courtney, moving at the pace of connection.

Connection to our breath, connection to our own inner guidance. And if there's a relationality and someone is inspiring you to take action and it feels good, amazing. That's something that you're already wanting. But if someone's trying

Andrea Knoche (: 32:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 32:32

to pressure you into something or you're pressuring yourself, slow down. Don't do it. Like just wait until

Andrea Knoche (: 32:35

Mm-hmm. Slow down. Love that.

Mike Elliott (: 32:39

there's that edgy kind of fear, but there's excitement in it too.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:44

Mm. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Okay. Well, I'm gonna move on a little bit. I love hearing about all of that. And thank you for sharing that. That's that's such an emotional and true and real feeling. And I mean, for those that are watching on YouTube, you can see the emotion that came from both of us during that conversation, how it just really resonated. So thank you for sharing that, Mike. I love that. and so I'm gonna hit on a little

couple of things that I promised I would. And it is those men out there, right? That are promising us all of these things and not actually delivering, right? So, okay, so why do you why do you think men do this? Why do they describe themselves as these gentlemen and the provider and the protector and all of these things, but their behavior isn't matching their words. Where's that coming from? Are they deliberately?

Doing that just to mislead women, or do they genuinely believe that they are that kind of person? That's where it's confusing.

Mike Elliott (: 33:42

Yeah, it's so confusing. And I'm so sorry for anyone who has interfaced that. It's so painful

Andrea Knoche (: 33:47

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 33:48

and messy and ouch. How I've For sure. Yeah, for sure.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:50

Yeah. But also a lesson at times, right? It can turn into a lesson for you. For sure. Sorry, go ahead.

Mike Elliott (: 33:55

Like the the lesson that I've watched and seen play out again and again with the women. I used to support women. That's how my business started. And helping them heal their relationship. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:04

Mm. you switched to men, okay.

Mike Elliott (: 34:09

Well that's my how my business blew up. Supporting women heal their relationship with the masculine. And then they all started to scream at me, teach men how to do what you're doing.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:17

A

Mike Elliott (: 34:18

And that birthed this whole train of working with high achieving men, which I love and I'm forever grateful. But

Andrea Knoche (: 34:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 34:24

when I go back to the learnings of that, what women really got to learn in these places of attracting experiences like this is discernment.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:32

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 34:33

Discernment and trusting their own feminine, their own felt sense inside of them, that wise oracle inside that is attuning to something that does not feel right. Those words aren't matching what my body's saying. Something in that feels off.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:44

Mm. Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 34:47

Because so many men, I believe most men, don't know they're doing it. It's an under

Andrea Knoche (: 34:53

Mm-hmm. I'd agree with that.

Mike Elliott (: 34:57

underdeveloped part of their brain.

They're numb in their body. They're collapsed. They're in functional freeze. And they're, they're just unconsciously manipulating situations to get their needs met.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:09

Hm.

Mike Elliott (: 35:10

And they don't know. I was that guy. I had no idea. In my last marriage, I didn't

Andrea Knoche (: 35:13

Mm. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 35:15

know what I was doing. I didn't know I was intaking energy. I didn't know I was dishonoring her or chipping away or saying one thing but behaving in another.

Because I was dissociated, I was numb. I I was all these things I was described, I described. And

Andrea Knoche (: 35:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 35:30

I really believe most men are in that same position and they're being labeled and shamed and attacked for all their behaviors, which I get it. It's creating a lot of hurt, but I'd

Andrea Knoche (: 35:42

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 35:42

say it's a very, very small percentage where somebody in their wiring is maybe psychopathic or a true narcissist. Most

Andrea Knoche (: 35:51

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 35:51

of what I've worked with is.

Even where I would used to label someone as this nar as a narcissist, it's more just narcissistic tendencies that are coming from unintegrated trauma. It's just fear and terror and panic

Andrea Knoche (: 36:05

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 36:06

deep down. And it's an overwhelming amount of internalized shame that the body will self-protect. So if someone

Andrea Knoche (: 36:15

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 36:15

has a big well of shame and it's so uncomfortable and it hits this place of I'm a monster, I'm gross, nothing, you know, I should just.

End my life, which a lot of men are walking around with without even knowing. When that

Andrea Knoche (: 36:27

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 36:27

gets poked and provoked, well, it's like a big reaction, it's a lot of things to deal with. So I think a lot of men are unconsciously coping and just presenting as I'm any man, just to highlight if you're listening, if he's saying I'm emotionally mature, he's not. That is a little boy coping

Andrea Knoche (: 36:44

He's not

Mike Elliott (: 36:46

strategy that is trying to, it's a grandiosity of propping up. Look, I'm good and I'm great, I'm worth keeping.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:53

Yeah. Need to say it.

Mike Elliott (: 36:53

A mature man doesn't need to, you'll never hear me

say, I'm a mature man. That's bullshit. If I am, I'm in a little boy part. That's not true. The

Andrea Knoche (: 36:58

Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 37:02

only truth that can be, the only truth can ultimately be felt and experienced from the person that on the other side of the relationship. And if the behaviors

Andrea Knoche (: 37:11

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 37:11

aren't matching the words, well, that's just a dis it's an unintegrated part. And so there's if that one thing, if you know, if you're someone listening,

And you've been in that same place you described, Andrea of, he says

Andrea Knoche (: 37:25

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 37:25

he's this, he says he's that. You now get to be the ninja and protect yourself and discern appropriately and know that you're most likely, I'm projecting all over these men, but most likely you are you are experiencing an an underdeveloped part of his experience. And just look at the little boy that's wanting to be good enough and just see it for that.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:49

See it for that.

Mike Elliott (: 37:49

He's not bad

or wrong, but just actually see it for that. So you can relate in that place in an appropriate manner. And we don't have enough time in this to give you all the tools and that. But

Andrea Knoche (: 37:57

Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 38:00

it's starting to discern, yep, that's his little boy. And I have a little girl. And that's just part of being a human in our culture. But it's starting to see it so you don't

Andrea Knoche (: 38:11

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 38:12

get swept away by it. Because then this is where things get messy. You're like, well, you said this, and you okay. Now we're now hurting both sides.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:19

Yes.

Mike Elliott (: 38:19

Because you pointing

out a thing that he does isn't even aware of, now he's gonna get more defensive, more dismissive, more repressive and shutting down and freezing nice guy tendencies. It's actually gonna make it worse if you're attacking him for it because he doesn't know. Just like the little girl parts that are expressing on the other side that can't discern that's happening. That's

Andrea Knoche (: 38:40

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 38:41

also the part to look at. Like, whoa, how did I not notice that? Well, because the little girl wants to believe it.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:47

Hmm. So what do you do with that information?

Mike Elliott (: 38:48

And nothing wrong with that either.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:50

What do you do with that when you're seeing that you're seeing that little boy in him and you're like, I know this is this is exactly what's happening and you're recognizing it, which kudos for recognizing that, right? But what do you do with that then if you're not going to address it and confront them about it? Do you just and you like them? You maybe

Mike Elliott (: 39:07

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 39:07

want to pursue this. What do you do?

Mike Elliott (: 39:10

Appropriately discern and get curious in what you need in that relationship to be well. So, as an example, if the need you're looking for to be met by listening and wanting to believe that I'm a mature man, I've done a lot of work, this and that. The need under there, my imagining is can I can I trust his behaviors? Can I trust that he's going to treat me well and I'm going to be emotionally met?

So that might be the need underneath the the getting hooked into believing the words. So then what a what a woman can do or man or they is then track, okay, well, let's give him some situations to test how he responds to a situation of stress and pressure. If

Andrea Knoche (: 40:00

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 40:00

he is emotionally mature, he'll own his shit, he'll apologize, he'll

Andrea Knoche (: 40:03

That's right.

Mike Elliott (: 40:04

acknowledge, and he'll offer reassurance.

And then he'll communicate

Andrea Knoche (: 40:07

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 40:08

some sort of fashion of I'm gonna work on that. That's a blind spot of mine. Thanks for pointing it out. But if a man hasn't been doing his work and isn't in a certain level of emotional maturity, he won't be able to communicate, yeah, that I was triggered. That's the little boy in me, whatever, you know, might the verbiage might be different. But

Andrea Knoche (: 40:24

Yep, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 40:25

if he can't own and acknowledge the impact on the misuse of his power, you just got your answer to regardless of what he says to you about what he is or he isn't. You're in control of that.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:38

Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 40:38

So you can start to ask about his childhood, like just some practicals.

You're on a date. Hey, tell me about the dynamics between your mom and your dad. How did they show love for each other? Hey, yeah,

Andrea Knoche (: 40:45

Mm. Get inquisitive, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 40:48

would they have, you know, would they have fights? And then how did they work through it together? And you start

Andrea Knoche (: 40:52

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 40:53

to ask questions that would lead to information that would tell you that person mature is mature or not.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:59

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 40:59

If the if if they're saying they're mature, they're mature and they grew up in a very mature household.

Well, you'll start to see it by the way they relate with you. If you feel seen, heard, and held in all these places where you have ruptures, guess what? You got an emotion an emotionally mature man, you just

Andrea Knoche (: 41:12

Mm-hmm. An emotionally mature man.

Mike Elliott (: 41:16

you just won the jackpot. Great. Hang on to him, do the work, keep working through those places together and enjoy your life. But if

Andrea Knoche (: 41:23

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 41:23

you're not and ruptures are getting bigger and you both are getting beat up, well, now you know the truth that

Andrea Knoche (: 41:29

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 41:30

there's places to grow up together, and that's okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:32

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 41:32

No one's bad or wrong. No one's at fault. It's just, yeah, this is what's actually true. I'm not going to believe

Andrea Knoche (: 41:39

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 41:40

the words. I'm not going to believe the coping strategies, the grandiosity, the propping

Andrea Knoche (: 41:42

Fall in that trap.

Mike Elliott (: 41:44

up, the one over. Just no, no, no, no, buddy. I see you and I I can I'm still gonna love you, but I'm not gonna

Andrea Knoche (: 41:50

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 41:50

let that play out.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:52

Mm. And that's good. And I love that you mentioned about like on a date to get a little bit inquisitive, right? And ask those questions. And I think, you know, as I've been dating, you know, for years, like, you know, I that is the fear. The fear of, but if I get too deep, I ask too many questions, I'm challenging him too much. Is he going to not want to see me again? Right. But that's and that's the unhealthy girl inside. I'm I'm saying me, that's not me now, but like.

The young girl, the girl inside me, that's unhealthy too, right? That my fear that if I ask these questions and I try to discern who he really is between who he's saying he is, is he gonna walk away? Am I not gonna hear from him again? And that fear I think is what stops people from asking those questions. But if you want to find that emotionally healthy man and or woman or they that

you want to pursue something with and you actually see something, you have to get down and dirty and you have to ask those things that you're afraid to ask. And if they walk away, that was never really meant to be the person in the first place, I'm assuming. Right.

Mike Elliott (: 42:59

Yes, Andrea. And I wanna circle pack back to one piece that you s shared, but first I wanna say

Moving through difficult conversations and going into terrain of childhood and what happened in your past, that's often the ultimate telltale of how mature and integrated someone is. Because someone

Andrea Knoche (: 43:23

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 43:23

who's done a lot of integration actually values and appreciates that depth because it leads to deeper felt sense of belonging and being seen, heard, and held.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:30

Mm-hmm. Yes. And they love that.

Mike Elliott (: 43:35

People will love it.

Courtney and I go so deep. And

Andrea Knoche (: 43:37

Yes. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 43:40

it's the most nourishing thing to be trusted with someone's heart to go to those places. But if somebody gets defensive, dismissive, or shuts down in the conversation, well, okay, that matters. Let's get curious. But now we at least know what we're dealing with. And so, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:57

Mm, mm.

Mike Elliott (: 43:59

And the thing I wanted to circle back and just contemplate is I heard you say the healthy little girl inside.

One thing I want to challenge is maybe trying on in those places, because I feel protective in those places with people, is just the little girl. Because whatever she's feeling is healthy and appropriate based

Andrea Knoche (: 44:17

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 44:20

off of the reality she's experiencing. Too

Andrea Knoche (: 44:22

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 44:23

many of us, and I'm this guy, I can I can be this guy, where I actually put too much pressure and

Blame on the little boy inside of me, but actually it was always the parent's responsibility to emotionally and relationally attune to what I needed to develop well. And if that environment wasn't around me, it will lead to dysfunctional behavior. But that's not because anything's unhealthy about the little boy in me. Something actually happened. And the

Andrea Knoche (: 44:52

To create

Mike Elliott (: 44:52

distress, the behavior is just an is information saying, hey, not quite that. That didn't feel good.

And we want to welcome that. And like you're so healthy, you know, and this goes to

Andrea Knoche (: 45:02

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 45:05

Dan Siegel's work is integrating our past. And one of the greatest ways I've found is really bringing in the acknowledgement and the reassurance that any of our triggered places is so healthy and appropriate. And it gets

Andrea Knoche (: 45:19

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 45:19

to be there as long as it needs to until it feels really held because then it does grow up and let go.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:25

Wow. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 45:27

I've

had moments in the shower where I'm triggered. I'm afraid. And if I just walked out of that shower and didn't do something about that triggered part of me, I'll create a mess.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:36

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 45:36

I'll be reactive. I'll be passive aggressive. But I sit in the shower and I notice that in my body. And I'm like, hey, little dude. Hey, little buddy. I see you're freaking out right now.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:48

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 45:48

And it makes so much sense. We're going into a big experience. We're going on stage today, whatever it is, new environment.

Hey, I see that. I see you're freaking out. And now I'm an

Andrea Knoche (: 46:00

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 46:00

adult and I can hold that. And you can feel that as long as you need to feel it. I am not going anywhere.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:09

Wow.

Mike Elliott (: 46:10

100% of the

time so far, I have no expectation of this happening, but a hundred percent of the time so far, about 30 seconds to a minute later, the energy liberates and I feel so good. Because the part

Andrea Knoche (: 46:21

Really? Because

Mike Elliott (: 46:23

actually is being cared for with tenderness, with care, no pressure.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:26

And it yes. And they're feeling seen and heard. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 46:31

And then that part can grow up because there's an a relationship now of trust in the nervous system.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:35

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 46:36

I become the good father, the good mother inside of me for the part of me that is young.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:42

Mm, so well said. Yeah, we tend to suppress it. We tend to, you know, that's a negative thing. Don't come up like that, right? And we just push through it. You're never really dealing with it. Oof, powerful. I love that.

Mike Elliott (: 46:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:56

okay, I want to ask you real quick because I I know we don't have a lot of time and I would love for you to come back. We didn't get to so many things I wanted to talk about. So I would love for you to come back. Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 47:04

I can come back.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:07

We spend a lot of time chatting before, didn't we?

Mike Elliott (: 47:09

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:12

but I do want you to talk about that you created something called the relational authority framework. So I just want the listeners to know what does that mean and how does it help explain what's happening inside a man when he becomes emotionally unavailable like that and inconsistent. Can you give us a just a brief workup on that?

Mike Elliott (: 47:30

Yeah,

I'll give you the brief version. So there's three pillars that it that it runs off of that creates this,

Andrea Knoche (: 47:32

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 47:36

but ultimately the framework is what creates what I call gentle power. It's a man

Andrea Knoche (: 47:41

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 47:41

learning how to live life with a strong back, soft front, really clear in who he is.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:47

Strong there.

Mike Elliott (: 47:49

So what I mean by that is really strong in his body, but open heart, curious, and willing to consider everything that's being offered.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:59

Mm. Which is super attractive, sorry to say. A a man who

Mike Elliott (: 48:00

Being presence. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 48:04

is a a man and strong in himself, but also can have that the softness. Sorry, interrupted, go on. But

Mike Elliott (: 48:10

Yeah. Presence.

Andrea Knoche (: 48:12

that's attractive, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 48:13

Yeah, of course it's attractive because it's safe. It's it's reassuring.

Andrea Knoche (: 48:15

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 48:18

It's the embodiment of masculine and feminine energy. A man that is

Andrea Knoche (: 48:22

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 48:23

clear in who he is and will have the ability to say no, to bring in boundaries, but in a pro-relational

Andrea Knoche (: 48:29

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 48:30

way. This is why I call it relational authority. Always

Andrea Knoche (: 48:32

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 48:33

in service to the relational space, which I believe is the ultimate.

Leadership rooted in nature, feminine energy informing masculine energy. And the way that I define this is leadership, my definition that I live by. And if anyone feels inspired by this, borrow it, live it. A man who is so clear in who he is and

Andrea Knoche (: 48:55

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 48:56

the direction that he's going, that the decisions he's the decisions he makes is creating an environment that is nourishing for him and the people around him.

Andrea Knoche (: 49:08

Mm. Love that. That's leadership. Is that what you said that was? Yeah. Love it.

Mike Elliott (: 49:11

Leadership. Leadership. Gentle

power. Learning how to take responsibility for the impact of decisions and behavior. Not I'm bad or wrong. I'm so sorry. Just whoa, I can see that hurt you.

Andrea Knoche (: 49:24

Mm.

Mike Elliott (: 49:24

Behavior might not even change, but it's starting to take ownership of, yeah, I am a privileged human being being in a man's body. And I do impact and I do have power and big vision. And sometimes I do.

not listen to the feminine part of me or the feminine embodiment around me. There's a lot of men that see women as

Andrea Knoche (: 49:41

Mm-hmm.

Mike Elliott (: 49:43

the threat and a problem. And if only they would their emotions would go away, everything would be okay. But but that is that

Andrea Knoche (: 49:49

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 49:51

is the lack of the soft front part because feminine energy is the greatest gift I've ever experienced because it's my real life report card of where am I at in my presence? Am I aware

Andrea Knoche (: 50:01

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 50:02

of what I'm doing with my power? Am I able to own places where I miss a tune?

That's the gift of the feminine. It mirrors back, hey, buddy, you're kind of lost in the vision. You're, you're, you're moving too quick.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:13

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 50:13

But if I can learn to slow down and really listen and feel what's being shared in those places, it's actually the thing that makes me better at my work. So I want to slow down and listen. I want to take ownership in my triggers. I want to grow up those little parts because it actually is the thing that leads me to more freedom. And I watch this with all my clients. Men who learn how to embody gentle power.

start to experience more respect and desire and longing from other people. They want it attracts more opportunities. There's the team wants to perform better because it's so nourishing to be around that person in their presence that it

Andrea Knoche (: 50:54

Yeah.

Mike Elliott (: 50:54

just leads to growth in all areas of their life.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:58

Yeah. Wow. That's great. It is, it's attractive. And I wish that more men recognize that, right? Because they think that, hmm, powerful man, I'm I'm a man and I'm gonna protect you and provide and all of those things, but like to soften and have those moments together, the conversations that you know you and I had in the beginning, just to be able to have those. It touches a different part of you and it it creates this hotness.

Right in your person. I mean that's just so attractive. So that's good stuff. That's good stuff. Okay, I'm not ready for you to go, but I'm gonna let you go. Tell everybody where can they find you, Mike? Where can they find?

Mike Elliott (: 51:41

Yeah. One of the easiest ways to find me is if you're on Instagram, go on Instagram. I'm sure the link will be down in the description. The handle is

Andrea Knoche (: 51:49

Yes, it will.

Mike Elliott (: 51:51

Mike Elliott dot relating two T's in Elliot. And go find me there. Shoot me a message if something got poked and provoked. If you want to share a reflection and insight, I'm a relational guy. I just love to hear what came up for you. Let me know. Introduce yourself. That's the easiest way.

Andrea Knoche (: 52:03

Yeah.

so good. So good. Yes, I'll have all that in the show notes. And to the listeners out there, if this episode gave you a new way to look at the men you date and the patterns that you keep experiencing, send it to a friend who needs this conversation. This is this is a really, really good one and really touching. So don't forget to follow Mike where he's at, and you can follow from Mrs. to ms wherever you listen so that you never miss an episode. And also check out Mike's podcast, The Sacred We.

Podcast, right? There's fountain two. And we'll have that in the show notes. So that's it for this week. I hope we're gonna have Mike back. I'm sure the listeners are gonna be messaging me saying, yes, please have him back. We have so much more to cover there. So thank you, Mike, for joining me today. It's been a pleasure. So

Mike Elliott (: 52:47

Yeah. Such an honor to be here. Thank you.

Andrea Knoche (: 52:50

good. So good. All right, you guys. We'll see you next week. Have a good one.