Divorced. Dating Again. WTF Do I Do Now? | Separation Story Time

Andrea Knoche (: 00:00

So there is a version of divorce that people talk about. We have the lawyers, the custody schedules, the heartbreak, figuring out where you're gonna live. But then there's the other part. The first time you're sitting alone in your house and you're thinking, What the fuck do I do now?

Amber Lee (: 00:17

But yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:17

The first date, the first terrible date.

The first time someone sees you naked after being married, my God, I cannot wait to talk about that. And the moment you realize you don't actually know how dating even works anymore. And then somewhere in the middle of all that chaos, you start realizing, wait a second, I actually kind of like this new version of me. And that is a little bit of what we're gonna talk about today. So my guest today is Amber Lee. She is the woman behind separation story time, which I found and immediately thought, yeah, she's one of us.

She talks about divorce, single mom life, dating again, the glow up, and all of those messy little moments after a marriage ends that we're usually thinking but don't necessarily say out loud. And considering I've made an entire podcast out of saying the things we're apparently not supposed to say out loud, I knew this was going to be a good conversation. Amber, welcome to From Mrs. to Miz.

Amber Lee (: 01:13

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:16

I'm excited you're here too. This is gonna be so fun because you and I discovered we talk about the same thing. So we need to talk about this together and get it out there for everyone to hear. So, okay, you got divorced, I got divorced, I'm excited to talk about all the completely insane things that nobody prepared us for. So before we get into dating and all of the fun shit, give me the separation story time origin story. What happened? How did this

Amber Lee (: 01:39

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:39

come about?

Amber Lee (: 01:40

Yeah. So I when I first got divorced, I had no idea what I was doing, like everyone. and

Andrea Knoche (: 01:46

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 01:47

I remember one day, I was like, what do single people do? And I had no idea. I just was guessing. I was like, I'm pretty sure single people, I don't know why. I was like, single people go out to eat alone a lot. I don't know why

I had that in my mind. I was like, okay, you're gonna do it. You're gonna go out to eat alone. And it and I went.

I sense actually can go out to eat alone, but my first time was a terrible experience. I hated it and I was like, this is kind of funny. I'm gonna post a video about it. And I made a video on my private Instagram stories and I called it divorce diaries and I was just being silly. And all my friends and family were like, haha, this is funny, keep it coming. And I was like, okay. And I kind of just every time I would experience one of these like divorce moments, I would post a little video about it.

And people, I mean, granted, these were friends and family, but they were really liking it and responding to it. And I was like, this is interesting. So then I was like, maybe I'll start a podcast. And I recorded two episodes and I was like, I don't want to edit a podcast. So good for you. Because

Andrea Knoche (: 02:49

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 02:50

I have there they're in the vault somewhere is two podcast episodes no one's seen that I recorded and was like, so this is not something I want to do. so then I was like, What if I wrote my story out and I've always

liked

Andrea Knoche (: 03:01

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 03:02

writing.

So I started writing, I made I created a website and a blog entitled Separation Storytime. And I thought no one will read this except for my friends and family, but I'm gonna try. So I wrote the blog and then I decided to make a public Separation Storytime Instagram to market it. and you know, I wasn't really sure what I was doing yet, but I decided every Friday I would tell a story.

And I think the first few Fridays, I f I got a few followers, like whatever. And then I had one story, my first video ever go viral. And I was like, wait, what's happening? And like my phone is like blowing up and I'm getting all these followers and all these DMs and I'm getting like hate comments for the first time. And I'm like, ew, I don't like that. But like all of this, and I was like, what's going on? And then I was like, people really like the stories. And so I just kind of kept doing it.

And it grew from there. And so, yeah, so Separation Storytime is basically it's a blog that's being turned into a book, which I'm really excited about.

Andrea Knoche (: 04:06

Cool.

Amber Lee (: 04:07

yeah, really, really fun. And it's it's basically all about divorce, dating, single mom life. and then the the account is the same thing. I tell stories, I I tell some dating stories in real time, which is fun. I give the men nicknames, and so sometimes people are like rooting.

For men, which is really funny, or they're like, don't go on another date with him, or like, why haven't you

Andrea Knoche (: 04:30

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 04:30

locksmith yet? And it almost feels like a a modern sex in the city. It's so interesting to have all these people kind of like weighing in on my dating life and like second

Andrea Knoche (: 04:41

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 04:42

chance and who shouldn't. And so it's really it's been really, really fun. It kind of just turned into this whole little community of people who are following my story in real time.

Andrea Knoche (: 04:51

it's crazy how one little video can go viral and it completely changes the whole trajectory of your life, right? And so funny because we were totally the opposite, where I was like, I don't want to write about these. I don't think it's gonna hit well. And I don't like to write. So that's why so I'm like, I'm doing a podcast.

it's funny, totally opposite.

Amber Lee (: 05:08

One of my favorite things, I really like leaving funny comments under my hate comments and then I post it

Andrea Knoche (: 05:13

Ha ha ha.

Amber Lee (: 05:14

under like a thing called humble and my spirits of people just die laughing.

It is weird that the online culture of people just thinking they can say what it's very scary because I think like for me, yeah, I can handle that. But I do think I think it's about younger women who post, I just get concerned. I'm like, there are some people who that could be really destabilizing for.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:33

yeah, I agree. okay, how long were you married?

Amber Lee (: 05:37

we were married for seven years.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:39

Seven years. Okay. And then was there like one particular moment that you just knew your marriage was over? You wanted out? No.

Amber Lee (: 05:47

No. I our

our marriage was so we were really young. We got married at twenty-three.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:52

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 05:55

and now whenever anyone asks me what's the right age to get married, I say when both of you have a fully developed frontal lobe. Wait until your full your brain is fully developed.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:02

Exactly. Till you get that.

Amber Lee (: 06:06

no, we yeah, we got married really young, so I don't think we totally had a sense of who either of us were at that point, but we thought we did. Like every you know, we thought we were so grown up.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:14

Mm. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 06:17

I I to be honest, I think most of my marriage was very happy. I I liked being married. I really actually really loved it. we had our main issue, and I write about this in the blog, was intimacy. We had a lot of issues with intimacy

Andrea Knoche (: 06:31

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 06:32

as a result of we both grew up very religious and a lot of purity culture, and unfortunately it just really bled into our marriage. I ended up with a sexual disorder and I had to go to physical therapy to correct. I mean, it was just the cards was

Against us. I mean, there was a lot of other things too. You know, marriage is so much a choice. It's two people every single day have to wake up and keep deciding to do it. And if one person doesn't, that's it. I mean, it's it really is in its most simple form. That's what it is. and so yeah, there wasn't really one moment. I think it was yeah, I think it was just intimacy was really hard. I think you start to feel more like friends.

after

that point and it's really hard to get any sort of romantic anything. And we we really wanted that for each other. You know, our our marriage really ended kind of beautifully. I I would say it was more it was not because we hated each other, it was cause we loved each other and we both felt like you deserve a partner who can give you a romantic love. And and so is

Andrea Knoche (: 07:39

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 07:40

why. And obviously it wasn't all sunshine and roses.

Andrea Knoche (: 07:45

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 07:45

But

I think in its most in its most probably honest form, I really think it was just two people who were too young, didn't know what they were doing, and realized after the fact, actually don't know that we're each other's person. and we deserve

Andrea Knoche (: 07:57

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 07:58

to go out and find that that person. So

Andrea Knoche (: 08:01

Yeah. Well, I love that you kind of found that revelation early on because that's you know, we tend to stay in it way longer than we should have. I mean, I got married at twenty-three as well. We're very similar. Yes. Yes. Is that

Amber Lee (: 08:11

Come with us. How do you? Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 08:13

not crazy? But I was married for 20 years. But again, you know, a little bit of kept it going on too long. And same for me was like the intimacy, it was very friendship like. I just didn't see him in that way. And so that made things very difficult. And again, really kind of

screwed with me too to think there was something wrong with me. yeah, why I wasn't doing that. So but when you okay so then you got divorced and I'm just gonna skip to right when you are okay, not your divorce. What we just skip right over that. What did you

Amber Lee (: 08:42

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 08:45

think that divorce was gonna be like versus like what it actually was? Was it very different for you?

Amber Lee (: 08:53

Yes.

I thought to be honest, I think I just thought like, I'll be fine. Like I thought, well, the most naive thing I did was I really thought me and my ex-husband would stay best friends. Like I thought, like, this relationship is gonna stay intact. Not much is gonna change. Like, except we'll be dating other people. We're gonna be fine. Like, we're you know, I mean, we both

Andrea Knoche (: 09:17

You see.

Amber Lee (: 09:18

were so naive. I mean, we had

You were like, we'll live next door to each other. And well,

Andrea Knoche (: 09:22

Ha ha ha.

Amber Lee (: 09:23

I mean, it's so I think about it now. I'm like those poor kids. but so very the co parenting w is a lot harder than I thought it would be. I think losing the romantic aspect didn't hurt me that much. Losing the friendship hurt me very much. That was

Andrea Knoche (: 09:38

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 09:38

that was really hard. dating, I think I thought would be way more fun.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:45

Right?

I thought the same thing.

Amber Lee (: 09:46

Yeah, I was like, this is gonna be great. Like I get to finally see what

the apps are about. Like and I I think I liked it for twenty four hours. And then I was like, so this is unfortunately miserable. so dating,

Andrea Knoche (: 09:56

Ha ha ha.

Amber Lee (: 09:58

I mean, dating can be fun, but it was definitely so much harder than I thought it would be.

Andrea Knoche (: 10:02

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 10:04

and the grief, i it was so much sadder than I thought it would be.

Andrea Knoche (: 10:09

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 10:09

you know, and in some ways I think yeah, I think it's made me a stronger person. I think I'm so much more

Amber now than

I was

Andrea Knoche (: 10:17

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 10:17

ever before. I mean, I've totally discovered myself and fallen in love with myself in new ways. And that's been like the biggest blessing. But but it's hard. I mean, it's it's not just a bad breakup. I think people who haven't been divorced are just like, it's a bad no, it's not. Your whole life just changed. Like,

Andrea Knoche (: 10:34

Yes.

Amber Lee (: 10:35

it's like someone picked you up in your life and then went, wee, and just placed you

Andrea Knoche (: 10:38

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 10:38

somewhere else. And you're like, what? And all the dreams you had for your future, and it's

Andrea Knoche (: 10:42

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 10:43

You know, so I think it was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I think some people feel a sense of freedom in divorce. I did not. I I felt a deep sense of of grief and loss. but yeah, I the biggest surprise for me was how painful it was, but also how dating is not as much fun as I thought it would be. Like I was like, I'm gonna have a new husband in a year. Like this is so easy. Like, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 11:08

Yes. my God. That is so

funny. Yes. I was the same way. I was like, I came out guns a blazing. I'm like, and I'm going young.

Amber Lee (: 11:16

Yeah, I can grab this.

Andrea Knoche (: 11:18

I'm gonna find my young guy and we're gonna have such a great time. And that was traumatic. I mean, a lot of it is super traumatic. How old were

Amber Lee (: 11:25

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 11:26

your kids when you got divorced? Or how long ago did you get divorced?

Amber Lee (: 11:28

I

have one son, he was three, so very young. So that was that's

Andrea Knoche (: 11:35

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 11:35

where a lot of the pain came from, is is he was so little and he was so confused about what was happening and and figuring out the vocabulary to even explain it to someone that young

Andrea Knoche (: 11:45

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 11:45

was difficult. yeah, so there was just one and we got divorced, let's see. Technically we separated in f

October it'll be four years that we've been separated. But divorce

Andrea Knoche (: 11:58

Okay.

Amber Lee (: 11:59

came way after we had a bit of a long process, but so actually don't even know. But I would say four years

Andrea Knoche (: 12:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 12:04

accurate, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 12:06

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So was there so once you started dating or, you know, you you kind of got into the groove of it a little bit. All you know, the

Amber Lee (: 12:14

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 12:15

other stuff was either suppressed or, you know, kind of went to the wayside. Did you have a moment where you just realized like, holy shit, I actually like my life right now? Did you get to that point or were you still kind of craving what was missing?

Amber Lee (: 12:30

I think I I think so my first date ever after divorce was actually a great first date. Like it was amazing. I probably was terrible.

Andrea Knoche (: 12:38

Really? Tell

Amber Lee (: 12:41

I was probably terrible. He did great. I had no

Andrea Knoche (: 12:43

I mean he was great.

Amber Lee (: 12:46

idea what I was doing. and I think but I do think there was something he found endearing about that because I was just like, I've never been on a date. Like I was 18

Andrea Knoche (: 12:53

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 12:54

when I met this guy. I don't know how to date.

it was great. I mean, I thought he was so handsome and like he he was just cute. He was so handsome.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:03

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 13:03

He was really good at flirting. he was super witty.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:07

And probably

something you hadn't really had in a while, right? Like 'cause you

Amber Lee (: 13:10

No.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:11

or you're probably experiencing feelings that you were like, Whoa, what is this? Yeah. It's exciting.

Amber Lee (: 13:15

Yeah. Yeah. I and he I

I just yeah, I thought he was so cute. And I remember like the whole time being like, I hope he also thinks I'm cute. How

do I find out if he thinks

Andrea Knoche (: 13:24

Ha ha

Amber Lee (: 13:26

I'm cute? What do I do? And I asked. I was just like, so quick question. I was like, You you kinda you kinda like this look, right? He was like, What? I was like, like you think

Andrea Knoche (: 13:34

It's

Amber Lee (: 13:37

I'm like you think I'm pretty and he was like, Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:39

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 13:40

I was like, sick, 'cause I also

Andrea Knoche (: 13:42

Ha ha ha ha.

Amber Lee (: 13:42

Think you're pretty

and this poor guy is just like what? And I was like super cool, two hot people thinking at each other's hot and like at the the g I was like this is so fun.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:50

You're like, this is good.

Amber Lee (: 13:53

So my first date was great, and I think I had the butterflies and I was giddy. So I think, yeah, I think there was it was a roller coaster of like this

Andrea Knoche (: 14:00

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 14:01

is so fun, and my gosh, I'm getting divorced. This is so fun, and I am so sad. I think it was

Andrea Knoche (: 14:04

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 14:05

just a constant, you and then I would have a really bad day and be like, What was I thinking?

Andrea Knoche (: 14:10

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 14:11

but

Most of them that I've dated actually have been pretty lovely despite some of my content. Most of them are pretty lovely people. but yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 14:18

Did you go out

with the first guy again or that was it? You're pretty, I'm pretty, we're done. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 14:21

Yeah. So no, so we're both so pretty. And no, he

ended up being my first serious relationship after divorce. So we didn't jump into it right away. We both dated other people for months and just kind of coming back to each other. And I he's in the blog. he's kind of the main character aside from me, I would say. he's called Book Boy Friend and I

Andrea Knoche (: 14:46

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 14:46

write all about the experience of

falling in love again after divorce and thinking I wouldn't be able to and what the relationship

Andrea Knoche (: 14:53

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 14:54

meant to me and what it was like and so yeah, that first day actually

Andrea Knoche (: 14:57

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 14:58

did turn into to something real for a little while. So

Andrea Knoche (: 15:01

That's amazing though, because that doesn't quite often happen. You know, the first ones are kind of just experimental and see which way you're, you know, what you're feeling, what you like. Cause like you don't even really know, you know what I mean? And seven years, well, it's not like twenty years, but it's still seven years. Like seven years.

Amber Lee (: 15:16

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:17

Like if we think about how much has changed in seven years, right? Like so much. And the dating apps, is that where you met him?

Amber Lee (: 15:25

We met on a dating app and he I mean, i we both weren't looking for anything serious. he wasn't and I was like, Yeah, me either. I s gotta you know, so it just we I would say we would both say we totally fell into it by accident. We just kept coming back to each each other until at a certain point it was okay, we're like we're dating, right? I was like, That's what this is. Like Yeah, like like well

Andrea Knoche (: 15:48

You're doing the clarification question again.

Amber Lee (: 15:52

Like didn't mean to do that.

But he he was you know, I he was he was great. He was great. He it ended up

Andrea Knoche (: 15:58

It was great. Love.

Amber Lee (: 15:59

not working out. But he you know, he's a he's a good guy, he's a sweet guy.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:04

Love that. Reason, season, lifetime. That's why they come in, I think. Bright. Okay,

Amber Lee (: 16:06

Yeah, yeah, yes, it's that.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:08

so we need to discuss the infamous divorce glow-up that a lot of people experience. Why do you think that women start looking just so fucking good after divorce? I is it that they really look better or that they just start paying more attention to themselves.

Amber Lee (: 16:25

Have

so many theories about this.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:27

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 16:27

okay. I think one is that you're one is that you know you might be re-entering the dating scene. And so you're like, I get it back together.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:36

You gotta get ready.

Amber Lee (: 16:38

Like I remember I was like, ooh, I was like, I'm gonna be competing with girls in their twenties. Like I was like, I gotta get it tight, like I gotta get back in the gym. So I mean, I had actually I was losing a ton of weight.

In my marriage, towards the end, I just wanted to feel good for myself. So I'd kind of already started that journey, but I do think I made a really big point to continue with it in the divorce as well. So I think part of it, to be honest, was just aesthetically, I wanted to look good. I knew I was gonna be dating. Two,

Andrea Knoche (: 17:07

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 17:08

I'm like being single can be like boring sometimes. Like, what else am I gonna do? I might as well just go to the gym. Like maybe you can meet someone.

Andrea Knoche (: 17:12

Mm-hmm. Right.

Amber Lee (: 17:15

but I also think you're just you're you're

Taking care of yourself in a brand new way and you're noticing your own needs. You know, when you're married, you might be focusing on their needs a lot. And when you're divorced, all of sudden you're kind of become the central character in your life again, aside from, you know, children you might have and you start to recognize like the things that are good for your body and your health and your skin. And you're you just start all of a sudden you're the main priority again. And so

Andrea Knoche (: 17:41

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 17:42

I think you start taking better care of yourself. A lot of people go to therapy.

when they're divorced, which I think is amazing. Now your mental health is doing better. And that's going, you know, if you're

Andrea Knoche (: 17:50

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 17:51

feeling more inner peace and inner joy, I just think that's gonna shine through. And the more you

Andrea Knoche (: 17:55

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 17:56

learn to love yourself, that's gonna shine through, regardless of any sort of, you know, working out hairstyles, Botox, whatever you could get, if you're happy, I just think that comes through. so

Andrea Knoche (: 18:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 18:08

yeah, I think, but I do think there's something to be said about like if you know you're gonna be dating, you might just start to put a little bit more emphasis on things.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:14

Yeah, just

start getting me.

Amber Lee (: 18:16

But I do think inner as well

is a real thing.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:19

Yeah, I do too. And I think that what I was gonna ask you, do was any of it to get him to notice you again? The ex husband meeting, was that still lingering around? You know, 'cause I think that we do that, right? Like we start getting ourselves ready to move forward, but there's a little bit of us that's still like, huh, you know, like, are you miss you're missing out on this? You know, was there any of that? Or you were like that.

Amber Lee (: 18:40

Do you know what's funny?

I I wanna say no, but I don't know that that's true. I was thinking the other day, actually literally just today, I posted a reel and a guy DM'd me and he was like, You have such pretty eyes and I was thinking about something crazy. Objectively, this was a crazy thing to say. When me and

Andrea Knoche (: 18:55

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 18:55

my ex husband were separating, we were dating other people and we were but we were still like kind of friends. We didn't know what we were doing. And we were sitting at a bar and I remember looking at him and I like, you know.

What's crazy? You probably tell her that she has really pretty eyes, but we both know there's no way they're prettier than mine. You've seen them, right? And like yeah, and we were like a few margaritas in, and I was like, Ray, am I right? And he's just like staring at me. I'm like, Yeah, you're lying when you tell her it's the prettiest eyes you've ever seen. We both know they're mine. So like I would love to say the more mature version. And he's like, No. But that but like,

yeah, I'm sure there was a little bit of like

Andrea Knoche (: 19:34

Yeah, of course.

Amber Lee (: 19:36

look how pretty I am. Don't you miss my eyes? Like

Andrea Knoche (: 19:39

Yes.

A little bit of the revenge body story and all of that stuff,

Amber Lee (: 19:42

Hello.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:43

right? But I love I love how you have these little conversations with with the guys where you're like, Am I pretty? Do you like my eyes? You know

Amber Lee (: 19:51

I know.

And then people are like, You're so insecure. I'm like, first of all, I was like, I've never, I haven't been on the streets ever. I don't know what you guys think is cute. I don't know. I was

Andrea Knoche (: 20:02

Yeah. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 20:04

really scared that I was catfishing people by accident. Like I was like, what if

Andrea Knoche (: 20:08

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 20:08

I just chose really good photos by and like and then they

Andrea Knoche (: 20:11

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 20:11

see me and I don't look like them? I was really in my head about like

Andrea Knoche (: 20:15

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 20:16

You know, what if I don't look the way I think I look? What if I I don't feel that way now. But initially I was like, what if they're disappointed when they see me and they don't know what to say? And like I yeah, sorry, I chose the

Andrea Knoche (: 20:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 20:27

same photo. Like I didn't use a poster and that hasn't happened, but I was so in my head about it.

Andrea Knoche (: 20:33

my gosh. Yeah. I know. And I think a lot of I think a lot of women go through that where, you know, it's the self-doubt and they're worried. And we have imposter syndrome, right? Where we we're always worried about, you know, thinking we're not good enough for somebody. And that you've probably discovered as well is like just this you you almost have to go through that to get to the end where you do love yourself and feel great about yourself. You have to have that point where you're like,

Who am I? I don't like who I am right now. Is anybody gonna like me? And you experience that just to get through to the easier part. It's a s it's a process for sure.

Amber Lee (: 21:10

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 21:11

tell me about the dating apps. Okay, so you kinda yeah. Do you like them?

Amber Lee (: 21:14

Yeah. Love Hate them. I

hate them so much. yeah, they're the worst. I mean, you know, I say that although I've had two lovely relationships from them. So I do the they do work. i I actually do think that they can work. but yeah, they're terrible. I mean, it's,

Andrea Knoche (: 21:39

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 21:39

you know, it's everybody feels like they have an unlimited amount of options and

The one thing

Andrea Knoche (: 21:44

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 21:44

that's so funny to me is I'm always telling people, I'm like, these aren't options. You haven't held this person's hand, you have not kissed this person, you have not felt chemistry with person, these are pictures. And that's

Andrea Knoche (: 21:53

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 21:54

it. An option is someone that you go on an actual date with and decide you like each other and would like to continue. Now that's an option for someone to have a relationship

Andrea Knoche (: 22:02

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 22:03

with. This isn't an option, this is a picture.

Andrea Knoche (: 22:05

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 22:06

and so I think people feel like there could always be someone better.

Or whatever. And it's my big thing with the dating apps is if you find someone you have a good connection with, I really think you should pursue that connection and see where it goes instead of scrolling forever because you might miss out on something that was really beautiful in favor of looking at options that aren't actually options.

Like

it's similar to so any sort of social media. People just make assumptions based off of a photo. And it's like, what are you talking about? Like I've been told so many things, like none of that is true. Like, what you mean? so it's I I will say on dating apps, I tend to go right into the voice memoing because I just

Andrea Knoche (: 22:45

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 22:45

think it feels more authentic and organic and I wanna know kind of

early on if I wanna continue talking to someone or not. but yeah, I think that's mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 22:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Voice is a thing, right? Voice is a thing. yeah.

When you hear the man's voice, I always do that too. Like I listen to the voice memos. I'll I'll skip everything else and go right to that. Cause if I don't like the voice, I'm just like, it's easy. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 23:07

Yeah, which sounds terrible, but I have had like

I have like heard someone's voice. I'm like, I don't know. It sounds so bad. I'm like, I don't know, I can date you. Your voice is weirding me out.

Andrea Knoche (: 23:17

I know.

Amber Lee (: 23:19

my voice too, so it's fine. We're all doing it. But yeah, the apps are

Andrea Knoche (: 23:21

Hmm.

Amber Lee (: 23:22

terrible. I totally get why people don't like them. I totally get why people are frustrated with, you know, this dating culture that we're all finding ourselves in now and why people are looking for different avenues and ways to date.

Andrea Knoche (: 23:34

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 23:35

But at the same time, I'm weird. Like if someone approaches me in the wild though, I'm like, Ew, so I'm so like what is you

Andrea Knoche (: 23:40

Ew, yeah.

Amber Lee (: 23:42

on one end of like the dating apps are terrible and then a perfectly nice guy could come up to me in person and and hit on me and I'm like, I don't know what to do in the situation. Please text me. Like so we're also I don't even know

Andrea Knoche (: 23:52

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 23:53

how to meet someone in the real world anymore without being weird. So that's my brand. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 23:57

That's funny. You're literally

like, I'm sorry, could you just go download this app and just message me in the dating app? That would be amazing.

Amber Lee (: 24:02

Yeah. And then master me, because they were making me

feel very uncomfortable. Exactly.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:07

So funny.

Amber Lee (: 24:08

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:09

What where would you meet guys? So just for the listeners to know, there's a pretty big age gap between you and I. I'm in my 50s. I think you're in your 30s. Yeah?

Amber Lee (: 24:17

Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:18

Yeah. Okay. So just different perspectives, right? But but still very much the same. We're still doing

Amber Lee (: 24:23

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:23

the same thing and talking to the same people. And I was like, I don't know where I would meet guys at this point because nobody is really out there hitting on you. And like you said, it's very uncomfortable when they do. And a lot of times you can be.

Like my friends will go, just go sit in like a the at the bar in a restaurant, even if you bring your laptop and you're just working and people will just approach you. But it doesn't really happen like that anymore. And for the most part, people are, you know, with their nose and their phone. They're not even looking up. You're trying to catch their attention. They don't even see you. It's really, really hard. Did you have any places that you would suggest for people to go other than the dating app?

Amber Lee (: 25:04

I mean I've done I have gone to a bar with a book before.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:08

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 25:08

that's actually one of my favorite. I don't have my son, I don't have my I don't have plans activities. I'll just go to a bar with a book. The success rate of meeting is

Andrea Knoche (: 25:16

Yeah. And that works.

Amber Lee (: 25:17

very low, but I'm having a great night. Like occasionally a guy will be like, What are you reading? And again, but then I'm weird. I'm like, Then your business. No, or I'll be like, this chapter's really good. Go away. so I

Maybe that can work. I mean, I do feel bad too, because the guy's really too really confident to go up and approach you. I've been approached at a coffee shop before. again, reading. I think that does kind of offer a nice opening. It doesn't look like you're working and so people feel a little more like maybe I can go over and just ask about the book she's reading. It kind of opens that door a little. but I I don't I mean I a lot of I've

people I've spoken to and where they have met people in the wild, is

Andrea Knoche (: 26:01

No.

Amber Lee (: 26:01

like people who do like sports. I don't do sports, but people who are like,

Andrea Knoche (: 26:05

Nie!

Amber Lee (: 26:06

join a soccer league. I'm like, what about me makes you think I can join a soccer

Andrea Knoche (: 26:09

Ha ha ha ha.

Amber Lee (: 26:10

league? Are you insane? but I know like I think a lot of people meet people doing like clubs and sports and like, but it's so hard to even make friends as an adult. Like

yet alone me a man. so I wish I had good advice. I don't, but I will say a book at least feels kind of approachable to people because it kind of signals that you're not working and no one wants to disturb you while you're working. It's not as unapproachable as like a phone in your face. So I think and it does it's a very easy conversation starter if someone does want to talk to you. Just be like, what are you reading? It's and I have I have been approached

a few times while I've been reading. but it hasn't led to anything because I'm awkward. It's not because of the men, it's because of me. So I can we can totally blame

Andrea Knoche (: 26:55

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 26:56

me and not the men. And good for them for being brave and approaching me and bad on me for being weird. So

Andrea Knoche (: 27:02

At you're very self-aware. You know it. Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 27:04

Yeah. the gym, actually. The gym. I do think some people meet

at the gym, although that's even harder as a guy, to be honest.

Andrea Knoche (: 27:11

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 27:11

A girl's in workout clothes, you just look freaking weird.

Andrea Knoche (: 27:14

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 27:16

I mean, 'cause some of my followers will be like, How do I approach women in real life? And I'm like, Don't do that. No, which is true. I'm

Andrea Knoche (: 27:23

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 27:23

like, I don't know, 'cause I'm weird. and they were like, What do I do to a girl at the gym? I'm like, stare at her eyes and not her body and

keep it really simple, right? Like just like, are you single? I noticed you. I thought you're really pretty. Can I have your number? I'm like I think short and sweet is the way to go if you're going to approach someone, but I think it's hard. And I think the way we date now has made it unfortunately harder for people to meet in real life.

Andrea Knoche (: 27:48

yeah. Yeah. I don't

think we even know how to have that kind of conversation or approach anymore because it's so

Amber Lee (: 27:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 27:54

different. Have you been catfished or were you catfished at all? In the

Amber Lee (: 28:01

so

Okay, so I haven't been catfished in that the person used photos that weren't of them. Like that's never happened. I have been catfished in the sense of like lying about silly things. Like, like men lie about their height a lot, which

Andrea Knoche (: 28:19

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 28:19

is kind of funny. but like this was a big lie. Like he said,

Andrea Knoche (: 28:25

Like what?

Amber Lee (: 28:26

so I'm five four, I'm short. And I think he said

Andrea Knoche (: 28:29

No.

Amber Lee (: 28:30

he was six foot and then he was shorter than me. And part of me is the

Andrea Knoche (: 28:33

He was shorter

than five four and he said he was six

Amber Lee (: 28:35

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 28:36

feet t

Amber Lee (: 28:37

And part of me felt bad 'cause like clearly that's like a big insecurity for him to like lie about that. But it did throw me off a little. just 'cause like, I wasn't expecting that. and I didn't

Andrea Knoche (: 28:48

Where's the rest of you?

Amber Lee (: 28:49

Yeah, and I didn't bring it up because I just thought that was weird. I was like, I don't want to like make him feel bad. But it did kind of set a bad tone because it's like

Andrea Knoche (: 28:57

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 28:57

I wish you didn't lie about that. I mean, I feel if clearly he's had

difficult time meeting someone, maybe because of that, and I do feel for him in that aspect, but I just think lying is kind of like the person's gonna find out if you plan on meeting them in person anyways. So even if like once

Andrea Knoche (: 29:10

Yeah. And

Amber Lee (: 29:11

you start talking and vibing, then maybe you could be like, by the way, I lied about this. You're gonna see me in an hour but they don't. So I

Andrea Knoche (: 29:19

Yeah, as you're walking in the door to the restaurant.

by the way, the five foot four guy in the corner, you're like, what?

Amber Lee (: 29:26

Literally, yeah.

Have you been catfished?

Andrea Knoche (: 29:29

I have with the photo thing. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 29:31

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 29:32

yeah. Then the guy gave me a photo and he was not really my type. I usually go for more of the darker, the dark hair, but this guy was blonde and he was just hot. So I was like, this is good. This is good. Well, then he started talking about his daughters and he said he had two twin daughters. And he talked about them a lot. And then he sent me photos of them and they were beautiful. And I'm like.

It should have stopped there because I'm like, why are you even sending me photos of your kids before we've even met? Right. Like that's a little weird. But I didn't. And so I'm just like looking at these photos. And then we had our first phone call and he just didn't sound like his photo. Like I I don't know what he should have sounded like, but he just

Amber Lee (: 30:14

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:15

didn't. It sounded like he was maybe Hispanic and I was talking to a white guy. Like it just didn't line up.

Amber Lee (: 30:21

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:21

And but that didn't stop me. I was still

Amber Lee (: 30:23

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:23

like, yeah, but.

How cute he is.

Amber Lee (: 30:26

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:27

and so it didn't hit me. I had actually asked him the day of the date to send me because it started to feel like something was off. Like it probably

Amber Lee (: 30:35

Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:36

felt way longer ago, but like I was just finally like, okay, it's all kind of adding up. He's probably

Amber Lee (: 30:42

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:42

not who he says he is. And I asked for a selfie, and he sent me another photo that he like just cropped in. And I'm like, see, he's not even sending me a selfie.

So I think at that point I pretty much knew. And even before we had a date planned for that day, and it was maybe like an hour before, I wasn't even getting ready because something sensed to me and he hadn't responded to my last text from like early in the day. So I just knew and I didn't even, you know, bother going. But I knew this because this is probably a couple of months later. I matched with another guy, totally different looking, had the s had conversation.

Talked about his twin daughters, sent me the photo. Same frickin' twin daughters. I know. And I'm like, you just keep changing yourself. Ugh Yeah. yeah.

Amber Lee (: 31:24

Ew Ew, that's so gross. And again, what's the

point? I guess just attention 'cause you don't you're not gonna

Andrea Knoche (: 31:32

No idea.

Amber Lee (: 31:33

meet them in real life, right? It's just weird.

Andrea Knoche (: 31:35

would you put your filters at for your height range?

Amber Lee (: 31:39

I just taller than me. I don't know that I have I just link which I know it's like sorry, men of the world. I know that sucks. But I'm pretty sure, so you're fine. But just just

Andrea Knoche (: 31:48

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 31:49

taller than me usually. I'm trying to think like I think I've dated like five nine and up probably. Yeah. Yeah, that's not great. I

Andrea Knoche (: 31:58

Yeah. Well I find it interesting 'cause

Amber Lee (: 32:01

like when I text them all How tall are all of you guys? I don't know how tall are you.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:05

Unfortunately, I

do that. I do that. I ask it pretty quick and I try to like find a way to ask it. and then

Amber Lee (: 32:13

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:13

I started to learn if it's not on their profile, there's probably a reason, right? Cause most, and when they put in their profile, they'll go, and I'm six one, because that seems to matter. You know it matters, or you wouldn't be putting it in there, right? Like it's so silly

Amber Lee (: 32:26

There is

Andrea Knoche (: 32:28

to me. But unfortunately, height is.

Something that is important to people, like especially as we're taller. It's very important to me. It just feels uncomfortable to me to be with a shorter guy. I've had this conversation a million times. I've taken a lot of flack for it, but to me it's a preference. It is like, yes. yeah.

Amber Lee (: 32:43

Really. It's any

other sort of attraction, it's there or it's not. And if you're attracting

Andrea Knoche (: 32:48

I agree.

Amber Lee (: 32:49

someone taller, it's the same way a guy could be like I don't date blondes. It's like, okay. Attraction's attraction. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:54

That's exactly what I think. Yeah.

And I'm like, who's like, why can I not say I'm looking for the tall, dark and handsome? Who's saying I'm looking for the short, dark and handsome? Nobody is. There's a reason for that saying. So I was just wondering what what you what you like for age or for height, which is good. So what date or did you have particular dating sites that you liked more than others?

Amber Lee (: 33:18

My favorite is Hinge because I've

Andrea Knoche (: 33:20

Yeah, me too.

Amber Lee (: 33:21

had the most success on Hinge. Bumble's dead to me. I never, I've never Bumble sucks. I don't want to start a conversation. I don't know what to say to you. I don't like Bumble at all. I've only been on one Bumble date ever. Ever. Yeah. Bumble sucks.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:34

Okay. Interesting.

Amber Lee (: 33:37

I don't like Bumble.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:39

Well, and that's such a good point, is some women

don't want to be the one to start the conversation, which is the whole premise of Bumble to be able to do that. So that's kind of funny.

Amber Lee (: 33:48

Yeah, I don't like Bumble. Tinder's stupid, but I've gone on some fun dates from Tinder. I've had a cute little situationship for like two months with a little Tinder boy. but Hinge is where I found like the most actual success and like real really my two real relationships were from Hinge. So

Andrea Knoche (: 34:07

I agree with you on Hinge. And I think that Hinge has done a really good job of like creating like they have the voice memo, right? Like that's a really good thing. And I think the last time I was on there, I'm off the sites now, but the last time I was on there, there was somebody that I matched with, and then they had the option to put in a little note to let you know something. Like I think it was something like, yeah, yeah.

Amber Lee (: 34:28

Yes. I love that. Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:31

I think it was something like cause he was far, but

I I'm the kind that's like, I just don't think you're gonna meet somebody like right here next to me. Like I'm okay to meet somebody further. And he immediately sent a little note that said, I know I'm a little bit far, but I have no issue coming to you. And I was like, love that. That was so good.

Amber Lee (: 34:49

Just

Andrea Knoche (: 34:50

Right. I love that. So that's fun. Okay, that's interesting. I'm sure a lot of people, I know a lot of people are skeptical about the dating sites. So

Amber Lee (: 34:59

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:59

it

It helps, I think, to hear stories and know what you're getting into, but you gotta just go for it. And like you said, you had a couple of relationships. I've had a couple of good relationships. It's finding a needle in a haystack, but

Amber Lee (: 35:12

No.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:13

it's just like, you know, we can sit there and go, there's no good, there's no good men on there. Like we can say that. But, you know, what if they were saying that about us? We're good women. Why should there not be good men on there? So I think it just takes a little bit.

Amber Lee (: 35:24

I've met great men

on dating apps. I've met terrible ones and I've met great ones, just like in the wild. They're everywhere. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:32

everywhere. Okay, I want to talk about sex after marriage. Can we go there on this one? Okay, so I want to talk about the first time being naked with somebody after being married. Was it terrifying for you or was it exciting because you had worked on your body, you're like, I'm good.

Amber Lee (: 35:51

So

I bec so the the sexual disorder I had is called it's a funny name, it's called vaginism. And essentially I know, I know,

Andrea Knoche (: 35:58

Why does it sound like Christmas?

Amber Lee (: 36:01

and and people always laugh when you say it and I'm like, I know. it's so essentially what that does is it makes sex incredibly painful. So there's no pleasure, it just hurts. it was it was terrible. And so I had cured it while being married through physical therapy, but I was very scared.

like what if it comes back? What if it

Andrea Knoche (: 36:21

Mm. Mm.

Amber Lee (: 36:23

yeah, especially with someone new like what if and and and so I it's it's uncomfortable because every, you know, guy I would pretty much say I have this order. I do not know what will happen. Like there is a chance that this will not work.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:35

Wow.

Amber Lee (: 36:36

you know, so it's we're b we're gonna find out together. Like So like that was really uncomfortable. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:41

Go slow.

Amber Lee (: 36:44

and for me, I, you know, having a kid, I have, you know, like

I had a C-section, so I have like a C-section

Andrea Knoche (: 36:51

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 36:52

scar and stretch marks. And I I found in the beginning I felt like I needed this is really sad actually. I felt like I needed to apologize for my body. So I didn't feel that way with my husband because this body gave him his son. So obviously he's gonna love this body and these marks because they gave him such a beautiful gift. But in my mind, I was like another man could not learn to love this. It did not offer them anything.

So and it makes me really sad to think back now, but I literally used to apologize every single time and like

Andrea Knoche (: 37:22

Well

Amber Lee (: 37:23

like sorry that there's sorry, like I had and like obviously like men have dated women who've had kids, so they don't think anything of it,

Andrea Knoche (: 37:29

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 37:30

but it was so internalized for me. And I do remember when my ex husband started dating, he was dating women who didn't have children. And I remember thinking like this is so unfair. Like

Andrea Knoche (: 37:41

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 37:42

They don't have stretch marks. Like they don't like that sucks. Like Yeah, like well. Like, so for

Andrea Knoche (: 37:46

I can't compete with that. Mm.

Amber Lee (: 37:50

me it was I was really scared to be honest on the physical standpoint. And I felt really insecure of just, you know, a body that created a human. so it was yeah, it was not exciting. It it was very

Andrea Knoche (: 38:04

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 38:04

it was very scary. and I was very intimidated.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:07

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 38:07

And my me and my

husband, we had waited until marriage to have sex. And so it was sc was scary for so many reasons. I mean it was like, you know, my brain was doing like the whole time. And

Andrea Knoche (: 38:23

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 38:23

I'm really fortunate. People I've been with have really just been lovely and and respectful and kind and and it's been totally fine. But

Andrea Knoche (: 38:32

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 38:32

I I was really in my head. Like I was really freaked out.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:37

So was the disorder that you had a ment it's a mental thing? Is

Amber Lee (: 38:41

So it comes,

it starts mentally and then it does take on a physical form. And so even when you get over it mentally, at this point doesn't matter. Your body has a physical response to sex. So essentially, it doesn't open the way that a normal body opens or with stretch, it doesn't do that. So you have to do physical therapy to correct it. So even when you get over the mental block, it didn't matter, which is very insanely frustrating. and

You know, again, with us being really young and with us being raised in purity culture, waiting until we're married to have sex. We didn't know what we were doing. We did not have the vocabulary to discuss what we were doing. You know, we didn't have the vocabulary to be like, I was nervous. I was maybe this is normal. Maybe it's not. I don't know. He didn't know. Like we and then we just we didn't know what we were doing. We handled it, I think, really immaturely, very differently than we would have handled it now.

Andrea Knoche (: 39:37

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 39:38

But yeah, so essentially it was it starts mental and then it unfortunately takes on a physical form that then needs to be corrected.

Andrea Knoche (: 39:47

I'm sorry

you went through that. That must have been really, really tough. did any of it this is kind of an odd question, but you said you waited till you got married to have sex. Do you think any of that could ha like that anticipation of that contributed to any of the, you know, your body kind of almost like freaking out a little bit? Like, yeah.

Amber Lee (: 40:09

Yeah, I was terrified. It's really sad. I was

excited on my wedding night. I was really scared. I was like, I kind of went in, like, this is gonna hurt. This is gonna everyone says this

Andrea Knoche (: 40:17

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 40:18

to me for the first time. a hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred

Andrea Knoche (: 40:20

yeah.

Amber Lee (: 40:21

percent. just we had really we didn't have a healthy relationship with sex or our bodies or our sexuality at all, either one of us really at that point. And so that's not something I think even for me became healthy until divorce and still is something occasionally

That I will struggle with. it's

Andrea Knoche (: 40:39

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 40:39

a part of yourself you denied for most of your life, right? So then all of a sudden you're trying to not deny it anymore and you're like, I don't even know what this is.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:46

Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I'm sure there's so many of the listeners out there that are like, yeah, maybe that's what I'm going through, you know, and they don't even know it. And also, you know, the body image issue that you were going through. That I think is so common with women. I mean, I went through it and I think it's just self discovery and and understanding your body, right? And as you get older, you're n you're not looking like you were when you were dating.

Seven years ago or 20 years ago. So it's just adjusting to that. And I think all of those things layered on, you're you're just like, my gosh. And it's terrifying. What are they gonna think of me? What are they gonna think of my body? Like, what if they don't like me? What if I don't do it right? You know, a lot of things to think about. So I remember also that being very, very terrifying. And for me, I had, which is one of my early episodes, I went really young when I came out. So I started dating a 29 year old.

And I was excited. Like I was like, my God, this guy's gonna rock my world,

Amber Lee (: 41:43

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:46

you know? I was so excited, but still terrified, right? And then the first time that we went to actually, you know, we went to his room and it was things were just too strategically placed around the room. The lighting, there was great lighting, the mirrors, all that stuff. So it started to really mess with me. And I was like, my God, this is scary.

And so I just like laid on the bed and he started climbing up on me. And he literally took off his pants and started smacking me in the face with his penis. I'm not. This is my episode dick slap. I'm not even joking. This really happened. And I am like, dodging this thing, like thinking he's lost. I'm like, you are the holes down there.

Amber Lee (: 42:31

He's lost.

Andrea Knoche (: 42:32

my God. You know, and I

It was so

mortifying for me. And I I was thinking, is this what we do now? This is what sex is like. And so that just set me so this

Amber Lee (: 42:44

Is this what we do now?

Andrea Knoche (: 42:46

is what we do now? my God, I'm just gonna be slapped in the face with a dick all the time. it was terrible. And

You know, I can laugh about it now. It was very traumatic, you know, when it happened. And and I was like, my God, I remember crying because I was like, I I don't know what this is. I don't know what you're doing. And so, you know, it is terrifying. And and those first few times, but you you do get through and you live to tell the story on a podcast about what happened. But you know, I think people just don't think about the other person that situation a hundred percent. He should have thought about me. He knew my situation.

He should thought about me and what that was gonna be like instead of instead of for himself. But yeah, real crazy. okay, so let's talk about you know being a single mom and dating and how that has been. you know, dating's already complicated. It's already really tricky. And then dating when you're someone's mom adds like another layer. And again, we how old is your you have a son? You said

he's six. Okay.

Amber Lee (: 43:50

Yes, son, yeah, he is six now.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:53

So I mean, I can't even imagine that.

Amber Lee (: 43:56

Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:56

I mean, my kids are older. They're like 28 and 24. And I still have a little bit of like, I don't want to tell them, you know, about my date. Here I talk about sex and penises on my podcast,

Amber Lee (: 44:06

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:07

you know, and they they don't care. They're good with it. But I remember

Amber Lee (: 44:10

Mm.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:10

it being a little like, what how much do I tell them? What do I say? I think six a little different, right? But like, how's that been? Do you and when do you introduce a guy to your kids?

Amber Lee (: 44:21

Yeah, so it's it's been really interesting. I'm I'm very selective with who I'll go on a date with because I'm like I have limited free time. If I am paying a babysitter or using one of my nights off, this better be fun. Like we might not fall in love. There might not be a second date, but like I better have a decent night. Like

Andrea Knoche (: 44:39

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 44:39

I have really worked to be able to go on this date. so I'm pretty selective bef that's the first thing. I try to at least

Andrea Knoche (: 44:46

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 44:47

do enough root digging to see if I'm gonna have at least a decent night.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:51

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 44:52

because I'm like I have very limited free time, so please don't waste my time. so that's

Andrea Knoche (: 44:56

I know. Do and

do well do guys like do you only date guys that have kids or that don't or like do you have that discussion ahead of time while you're laughing?

Amber Lee (: 45:07

This is terrible.

I will not date a single dad. I will not do it. And I

Andrea Knoche (: 45:11

Okay.

Amber Lee (: 45:12

know I say that people like, but you're a single mom. I'm like, no, I know. And you're allowed to have the same rules for yourself. my yeah, my reasoning is one, my schedule is so weird. I can't imagine having to n navigate that. Like, well, I have Tuesday at five. And I'm like, well, I only have Wednesday. I just think logistically it'd be really difficult.

So that's honestly the main reason is I just think logistically

Andrea Knoche (: 45:34

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 45:35

would be really hard. And I would have so many questions. Like I would not

be a fun date because I would be like, So do you like your baby mama? You like her, right? She had your kid. She had your kid. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:45

We're

Amber Lee (: 45:47

Did you know how hard that was? Nine months. Ha ha ha ha. You better like her. You only better speak Hyler. Are you paying your child support? Like I would be like, Can I have her number actually? I want to go out and have coffee with her. Like I would just, I just think I would be good at it.

so I only date guys who don't have kids, which is interesting because they have no idea what it's like to

Andrea Knoche (: 46:03

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 46:04

be a parent. And I'm sure it would be a lot easier if I was dating someone who did. but yeah, there, I mean, there it's interesting. I almost every guy I've dated after a few dates, they'll go, you know, you're just like a normal woman. I'm like, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:23

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 46:24

Like, didn't didn't really think you would be. I was like, I don't know what that means. I'm like, what did you?

What did you think? Like that I'd bring like coloring books? Like what was the you know, so that's funny. They're always surprised at that I'm normal, whatever their

version

Andrea Knoche (: 46:36

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 46:37

of normal is. They laugh when I pull up in my minivan covered in stickers and goldfish on the floor. And I'm like, that's when I think it really hits them when I pull up to the date in the minivan. And they're like, you're a real I've had more than once. Like I say, you're a real mom. I'm like, I wasn't lying. Yeah, I have a kid and this is my minivan.

So sometimes

Andrea Knoche (: 46:57

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 46:57

it's little culture shock for them. it I I don't have a hard rule about when a man will meet him, but I've only introduced him once and I was with that man for over a year. beforehand.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:09

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 47:11

So I'm I'm a little pretty strict with it. I don't want to bring someone into his life for a brief period of time. It makes it harder to date for sure, but that's you know, I'm really boundaried around him. I

What is interesting is my son, I have a lot of videos about him.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:26

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 47:26

I attribute all my recent success to him because see, his dad is getting remarried next month. So he is very curious about how it all works, about dating and getting engaged and getting married. And I want a sibling. How do I do that? How do we get one? you have to be married first, right? Okay, so we need to get you married. And he nobody wants me to be married more than my child. He is like

Andrea Knoche (: 47:51

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 47:52

On a mission. So he didn't used to care about my dating life. The one guy introduced him to he never, he still doesn't know that that was my boyfriend. He thinks that that's

Andrea Knoche (: 48:00

Really?

Amber Lee (: 48:01

his friend. Yeah. that was his it was his friend and mommy

Andrea Knoche (: 48:05

Cute.

Amber Lee (: 48:06

was planning play dates. so I think he saw us kiss once and he went, What the he later?

Andrea Knoche (: 48:12

You kissing my friend?

Amber Lee (: 48:15

Okay. So but now

Andrea Knoche (: 48:17

Fine.

Amber Lee (: 48:18

he is really curious. and he'll ask all the whenever I pick him up from being at his dad's, he's like, Okay, what'd you do? Did you hang out with a boy? I'm like, he's like, How did it go?

Andrea Knoche (: 48:27

Really?

Amber Lee (: 48:28

I'm like, my god. And he'll like try to give me dating advice, which is hysterical because he's six, and he I mean, he wants me to be married. So bad. So

Andrea Knoche (: 48:34

So cute. Mm.

Amber Lee (: 48:37

he will ask so many. I think in his mind it's fairness. I think because daddy's getting remarried, he feels like mommy needs to as well.

and he'll yeah, he's really curious right now. So he'll ask.

So I'll give him barebone details, you know. I'll be like, Well, this guy likes doing this. And then he'll kind of tell me what he thinks about that. Or this guy does this. Or, you know, he's like, that seems cool. You could keep dating him, or you know, he's really funny, really funny about it. he's

Andrea Knoche (: 49:00

Yeah. that is so cute.

Amber Lee (: 49:05

so that's interesting. It's it's funny, you know, and but yeah, men react all differently to it. I remember the one man who did

meet my son. after the fact he was like, Wow, my God, you were doing that all day and then coming to hang out with me. And you were fully present, fully energized, fully happy to be there. And I had no idea everything that was going on in your life. And I was like, mm-hmm. It's like, how did you do that? Like so it was really nice. He said he had a very newfound admiration.

For

single moms, he was like, I I really didn't understand what you were doing. I didn't understand how important these nights out were to you until I really was in your life with you and saw it. And he he had a very newfound perspective, which was really lovely and really nice. And it's I think it's it's scarier introducing a kid to the mom version of you, I think, than introducing your kid. Like meeting mom Amber is very different. You know, mom Amber is not giving you all her.

attention. Mom Amber is probably not flirting with you. Mom Amber is being fully

Andrea Knoche (: 50:12

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 50:13

attentive to her child. And I'm probably getting frustrated or I'm probably being super silly. And it's just you're seeing a totally different, you're, you're seeing a totally different me. And that feels very exposing and vulnerable actually showing them what my life like a mom is like. It's beautiful, but it's I remember showing him, I thought, I feel really, I feel naked. I feel really exposed

Andrea Knoche (: 50:33

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 50:34

right now seeing this version of myself.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:36

Yeah, because it was probably so different than what he even imagined or you know, his perspective of how your life was.

Amber Lee (: 50:43

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:44

well, your son sounds so cute. Lovely, lovely. All right, before

Amber Lee (: 50:46

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:47

you go, I just want to do a little rapid fire, a separation story time edition. Okay, so

Amber Lee (: 50:51

Okay. Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:53

don't don't overthink these. Okay. So just give me your first answer.

Amber Lee (: 50:58

Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:59

Staying friends with an ex. Yes or absolutely not.

Amber Lee (: 51:02

hundred percent. I'm I love all of them. It's bad. I need to stop.

Andrea Knoche (: 51:04

Okay, good, me too. I'm the same.

Amber Lee (: 51:06

I need to stop. But I would literally I would text I'm I love them all so much. My exes are my best

Andrea Knoche (: 51:11

Terrible idea.

Amber Lee (: 51:12

friends. I adore them. A hundred percent yes. But the guys

Andrea Knoche (: 51:15

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 51:16

I currently date don't like that. But but they will when they're my ex and we can still be friends. So yeah, exactly.

Andrea Knoche (: 51:22

So wait their turn.

okay, sex on the first date. Fine or bad idea.

Amber Lee (: 51:28

Bad idea.

Andrea Knoche (: 51:30

Bad idea. Dating apps, necessary evil or delete immediately.

Amber Lee (: 51:34

Necessary evil, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 51:37

Mm, but we want to delete immediately.

Amber Lee (: 51:39

Yes.

If you're tired if you're sleepy, you can delete it for a night and re download it tomorrow. Yeah. Ooh. How much younger?

Andrea Knoche (: 51:44

Perfect, that's a good idea. Younger men, yes or no. I'd you

Ooh, okay, let's say like a 24 or 25 guy for you.

Amber Lee (: 51:55

No, no. You

know what? No. I okay, I did a twenty I did. I dated a twenty nine year old and I was like, We're not we're not even that different and we were. I was like, You're a child. He just seemed so he

Andrea Knoche (: 52:09

You've done it.

Amber Lee (: 52:09

was really cute, but he seemed so immature to me. That's what it was. And that's not fair. I know there's mature twenty year olds out there, but it felt really immature to me and like not in a

Andrea Knoche (: 52:19

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 52:20

way like in a like, ew, you don't know how to do life yet, you cute little baby. so it's not necessarily a no. I would really have to be someone who like really impressed me though. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 52:32

Yeah. Yeah, that makes

sense. And I think 'cause you're a mom too, like you have a different perspective on life, right? Like you have you're responsible for another human being. So that and they're not. Yeah, totally

Amber Lee (: 52:39

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 52:42

get it. Okay. Fifty fifty dating, meaning paying for stuff. Yes or hell no.

Amber Lee (: 52:49

No, he should be paying for me. I'm a single mom. I can't

Andrea Knoche (: 52:50

Hell yeah! That's right!

Amber Lee (: 52:53

afford this. There's been times actually where a guy has asked me out on a date and I'm like, I gotta be totally honest with you. I was like, I I can't afford to go on this date unless you pay. And I'm not even trying to be mean. I was like, I would love to meet you. I was like, we can go to McDonald's and then I can go Dutch. But like the bank account is like tight. Like I'm a single mom. I have like so much debt. Like I can't and then like there's you know, so

Andrea Knoche (: 53:17

You're really selling

yourself to them there.

Amber Lee (: 53:19

Yeah, right. I'm like, date me and you're gonna get so much debt. They have a great personality.

so yeah, no, you should pay for me. I am like paying for a babysitter. What are you doing?

I I had this happen recently. He didn't Venmo, but he freaked out. Like I was like, I just wasn't really feeling it. I mean, I got an hour's worth of text messages about how I should have been feeling it. And I was like, I I'm so sorry. Like I just I mean one time a guy

Andrea Knoche (: 53:44

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 53:44

did okay, one time I have a video about this. One time a guy made me pay and the

Andrea Knoche (: 53:50

Mm-hmm.

Amber Lee (: 53:51

way he did it was crazy. He was holding a crit.

I actually do think it's funny. He was holding a credit card like this. It was like this. And

Andrea Knoche (: 53:58

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Amber Lee (: 53:59

he was like, Are you gonna come over after this? No joke. And I was like it's pretty late. Like, I'm probably gonna go home. He goes, All right, we'll split this then. And I was like, my god. And I think it was like

Andrea Knoche (: 54:11

my

Amber Lee (: 54:12

I think I did laugh. Like my reaction was to laugh because it was crazy. And I was like, Okay. And I I paid for my half. And then he tried to kiss me goodnight after. I was like,

to kiss you, you psycho. You think I'm worth one

drink. Like that's nasty. I besides that, every man every man I've been on

Andrea Knoche (: 54:28

my gosh.

Amber Lee (: 54:30

a date with has paid for me, except for that that guy. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 54:33

Yeah. I can't handle that when they think just because they pay they're obligated to get something, yeah, from you. That is cra

Amber Lee (: 54:36

Whoa. I'm not a hooker.

Like you got me. You're lucky. You got to spend time with me. You got to sit next to me and converse with me. Are you kidding? Like

Andrea Knoche (: 54:49

Thank ya.

Amber Lee (: 54:50

like get out of here. You had a great time. I know you did. Like I know I can tell. You're welcome. Yeah. Gross. Gross.

Andrea Knoche (: 54:53

Yes. It is just such an ick. Yeah. Such an ick. Okay.

I got three more. Posting thirst traps after divorce. Is this empowering or is it attention seeking?

Amber Lee (: 55:08

Both,

but who cares?

Andrea Knoche (: 55:09

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 55:09

If you want attention, get attention. I don't know why we think attention seeking is a bad thing. Like, if you're

Andrea Knoche (: 55:14

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 55:15

self-aware and you're like, I'm feeling a little sad tonight, I want a little attention. That's okay. Get yourself some attention, girl. Do what you gotta do. That's fine. Who cares? Like people are like,

Andrea Knoche (: 55:20

Yeah. Whatever feeds you. Love it.

Amber Lee (: 55:24

she's posting online for attention. I'm like, Yeah, obviously, why else would I be doing this? Are you stupid? Thank you for giving it

Andrea Knoche (: 55:28

Hehehe.

Amber Lee (: 55:30

to me. Like, I'm not ashamed. Like, sometimes I have something to say,

Andrea Knoche (: 55:33

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 55:33

and sometimes I just, yeah, I want your attention. That's why I'm doing this. What do you mean?

Andrea Knoche (: 55:37

Yeah,

Amber Lee (: 55:38

both. There's nothing wrong with that.

Andrea Knoche (: 55:38

I love that. I love it.

Amber Lee (: 55:40

That's okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 55:41

Exactly. Okay, checking your ex's social media. Is that normal or is that self torture?

Amber Lee (: 55:47

Mm, how far how long have we been broken at?

Andrea Knoche (: 55:50

let's say

six months.

Amber Lee (: 55:55

No, you should stop. You should stop. You should stop. You should stop. It's

Andrea Knoche (: 55:55

Are we still checking? We should stop the time has come.

Amber Lee (: 56:00

been a few weeks. It's like, you know, whatever. but after six months, I would hope that you're not still like really sad about your ex. Don't do that. Try to not be.

Andrea Knoche (: 56:07

Yeah. Are you

are you good about the remarrying of your ex husband?

you're like that's a whole another episode.

Amber Lee (: 56:18

Yeah, seriously.

you know what? The softest part of me is very, very happy for him and

Andrea Knoche (: 56:24

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 56:24

truly wants him to be happy and successful. I'm I have my own sadness about it, my own grief, my own whatever. But I I truly hope that this is a really happy, fulfilling relationship and I hope that it lasts. So

Andrea Knoche (: 56:39

that was very nice of you to say.

That was very good. Okay, I lied, I do have two more. Getting under someone to get over someone. Is that effective or terrible advice?

Amber Lee (: 56:51

It depends on how much you liked the the original person. Is that terrible but true? you

Andrea Knoche (: 56:57

yeah.

Amber Lee (: 56:58

are still in love with someone, it's not gonna help. It's actually probably just gonna make you sad. Like if you're still in love with us, you're gonna cry. You're gonna cry. Like you're gonna if you're not gonna cry during, you're gonna go home and cry. Like it's yeah, no, it's it's unfortunate.

Andrea Knoche (: 57:01

Mm mm. Yeah. You're gonna cry. Cry after. Mm mm. Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 57:17

I wish that it helped. I don't think it really does though. I think

Andrea Knoche (: 57:20

no,

just

Amber Lee (: 57:21

It just makes you miss them more.

Andrea Knoche (: 57:24

Agreed. Stay home and have sex with yourself. That's it.

Amber Lee (: 57:26

Excellent.

Andrea Knoche (: 57:27

last one remarrying for you. Absolutely or never again.

Amber Lee (: 57:32

my god, I'd get married tomorrow. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 57:34

He would. Not for your son. For you.

Amber Lee (: 57:39

I loved marriage. I think marriage is gorgeous. I think marriage is beautiful. I think my marriage is beautiful, even though it didn't work

Andrea Knoche (: 57:43

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 57:44

out. I don't think just because something ends that it totally negates all of the beautiful things that came from it. So 100%

Andrea Knoche (: 57:50

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 57:51

I would I would do it again. I a

Andrea Knoche (: 57:53

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 57:54

hundred percent. I mean there's a character. I call them characters,

Andrea Knoche (: 57:57

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 57:58

I give them nicknames.

the crush who I have a lot of videos about. My followers are probably sick of hearing about him.

Andrea Knoche (: 58:05

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 58:05

And like that man, my god, I would I would have married him. I my god, I was so into this guy.

Andrea Knoche (: 58:09

Mm.

Amber Lee (: 58:10

adore, adore, adore him. so yeah, I will I hope to be married again someday. That would make me very happy.

Andrea Knoche (: 58:17

Okay, good, good, good. Okay, so I want to end it with this because we this is what both of our platforms are about. But for the women listening who is sitting in that horrible middle part right now, their their marriage is ending, she's not recognized in her life, she can't imagine ever feeling like herself again. What do you wish that somebody had told you?

Amber Lee (: 58:37

my gosh. Okay. That it is okay to be sad. It's okay to be angry. You need to let yourself feel everything. Being sad is not a weakness. it's a strength, and we grieve the things that mattered. So, and it's okay that your marriage mattered. Your marriage probably should have mattered. So it's okay to be sad. Let yourself be sad. You will not be sad forever though. You will be okay. I remember at one point thinking and like gonna cry every day for the rest of my life. no.

You're not actually.

Andrea Knoche (: 59:06

No.

Amber Lee (: 59:07

You're gonna be super happy and your life still has a lot of fun moments ahead of it. And your life is not over. It's it's honestly just beginning in its own way. You're gonna learn to love yourself in ways you never thought you could. You're gonna discover yourself in ways you never thought were possible. and it's gonna be okay. and it's not linear. You might feel amazing for a few months and then have something that knocks you on your feet for a day, and that's okay. Feel it. Let yourself feel it. and in terms of just like

advice, I would say really start doing discovering yourself, do hobbies, do the things you've always loved. The things that you loved doing with your spouse, you can also still do without them. that was huge for

Andrea Knoche (: 59:48

Yeah. that's

Amber Lee (: 59:50

me. Like go to the movies. Who cares if you're doing it alone? Go to a bar. Who cares if you're doing it

Andrea Knoche (: 59:52

Love it. I go alone sometimes.

Amber Lee (: 59:54

alone? Go to an amusement park. Whatever the hell you want to do, you can go do it. You don't need a guy there

Andrea Knoche (: 59:58

Yeah.

Amber Lee (: 59:58

with you. but you'll be okay. You're gonna be fine.

Andrea Knoche (: 1:00:01

Mm, great advice. I love that. I love that. So to the listeners out there, if you loved Amber as much as I did, you can go find her at Separation Storytime. Cause if you're navigating divorce or dating all the things we just talked about and trying to figure out what the hell does your next chapter like, you're gonna love her content. Is there anything else you wanted to add or let people know where they can find you

Amber Lee (: 1:00:24

Yeah, the blog is separationstorytime.com. Go to chapters, start at the bottom, work your way up. Books should be out soon. come follow along and tell me if I should keep dating certain men that I'm dating or not. I I value all your opinions probably too much. But yeah, Separation Storytime on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. But Instagram is the platform that I keep kind of the most up to date in recent.

Andrea Knoche (: 1:00:48

Perfect. Awesome. Awesome. And if this episode made you think of a girlfriend or someone who's just kind of lost and they're having their own from Mrs. to Miz story right now, please send this to her and make sure you're following from Mrs. to Miz and Separation Story Time. Leave a review and come find us on Instagram everywhere, you know, before starting

Amber Lee (: 1:01:05

Yes, yes,

Andrea Knoche (: 1:01:06

over. Or let me rephrase that. Because starting over might be messy, but damn, it makes a good story, doesn't it?

Amber Lee (: 1:01:16

Well.

Andrea Knoche (: 1:01:17

Alright,

you guys, thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.